[EleventhHour]

from the article at the link above:
St. Augustine shunned them as bewitchers sent by the devil. Plato saw them without souls, placed here for the use and convenience of men.

Wow, my bad. I must have been very tired when I read that. I confused Augustine and Plato. It was Plato who didn't have a whole lot of regard for women. That's a little easier to take.

Okay, my faith in Augustine of Hippo is restored. Someone gave me Confessions to read when I was around 19 - 20, and I really was impressed. I have heard another woman make a claim similar to one of the claims in the article, that he approved of prostitution as an outlet for lust. I don't think any true Christian would claim such a thing, and I thought when I read that that he was misquoted or misinterpreted.

Going to a church?

Still procrastinating, I'm sorry to say. This has been an issue for me for quite a while, and I'm not sure what the problem is. It manifests as fear, I guess.

How's your life going, John?

[EleventhHour]

Here's another very interesting link that talks about the Nicolaitan beliefs in regard to true church leadership.

http://www.latter-rain.com/eschae/nicola.htm

[EleventhHour]

As Aaron Adams pointed out, though, the article above isn't supported. Well it was interesting to read about the 'Nicolaitan'-type clergy, who tell you you can't have salvation without them. It reminded me of the church I grew up in.

I typed up a whole decent entry here, but it turns out the connection was broken to CGR, and it wiped out the entry. I don't know if I have time to do it all again. Durn.

[Chrysostom]

Originally Posted by Liz

How's your life going, John?

Really well. I've got a lot of work to do, but I'm getting through it, hehe. Brittany is brightening up my life, as always.

Originally Posted by Liz

I typed up a whole decent entry here, but it turns out the connection was broken to CGR, and it wiped out the entry. I don't know if I have time to do it all again. Durn.

That used to happen to me a lot. Now, I open Notepad, and cut 'n' paste the entire entry into Notepad before I try to post it. That way, if I lose it, I've still got the copy in Notepad.

If you don't know how to transfer the text:
1. Be in the CGR typing window.
2. Press Ctrl-A to select all the text.
3. Press Ctrl-C to copy all the text.
4. Open Notepad (Start->Programs->Accessories->Notepad).
5. Press Ctrl-V to paste all the text.

Now, if CGR dies, you can just copy 'n' paste the text back from Notepad to the CGR window.

[EleventhHour]

Eh, thanks. I was posting at the library, so no notepad, but I sometimes just copy by highlighting with the cursor and clicking copy. That's if the server seems iffy that day, but I'll just have to do it on every entry over a sentence or two.

Brittany sounds like she could be your gf, wife, kid, dog or a French province. No doubt you are just an insane Francophile. Hee hee hee.

[Chrysostom]

Originally Posted by EleventhHour

Eh, thanks. I was posting at the library, so no notepad, but I sometimes just copy by highlighting with the cursor and clicking copy. That's if the server seems iffy that day, but I'll just have to do it on every entry over a sentence or two.

Ugghz.

Originally Posted by EleventhHour

Brittany sounds like she could be your gf, wife, kid, dog or a French province. No doubt you are just an insane Francophile. Hee hee hee.

'Brittany' is also the name of a dartboard. Mmm, darts.

But, no, she is my girlfriend. Haha, she came to CGR recently (her name is 'brittanymcleard'). She posted a couple of times in my blog, then in Benj's (because she knows him from her home town), and now she's apparently being contacted by all sorts of folks, hehe. We've got a date set for this Saturday. I'm going to take her to PF Chang's, and then we're going to watch So I Married An Axe Murderer. We may take a stroll around the lawn of the Capitol (I live in Austin, and the Capitol building is downtown).

Now I am hoping that she doesn't read this, because then she'll know what we're doing. I've got to keep it a secret, or she'll have no reason to be excited about the date. :-p

[EleventhHour]

Ah, darts. I'm going to paste my entry, since the library comp just wiped logged me out or broke the CGR connection somehow(*sigh*):

*Notices that ads at top of page today involve St. Augustine Hotel, ditto lodging, ditto Florida tourism.* When I was asking questions in Apologetics about Wicca & Christianity, the ads were for books on Wicca, witchcraft, etc. I didn't get the connection at the time, and wondered why a Christian site would have those ads. Now I get it.

Hm, so CGR attracts geezers looking to pick up other guys' girlfriend's? Interesting.

It's funny how no one I know who I think might be interested in posting at an LotR site where I go a lot (& mod), is ever actually interested in joining the board. I know some people who might join for a while to be polite, then quit after a while. I guess our personal manias tend to remain personal. Based on that, I'd say you don't have to worry about her seeing your itinerary. Of course, I could be wrong!

[EleventhHour]

ICTHUS: Well, my whole point was that if you hold St. Augustine in such high regard as a theologian, you should evaluate his catholicity in light of his whole teaching, not just the parts you happen to like.

I have a feeling that St. Augustine, from what I know of him would have been more likely to extend to me as a Catholic, the hand of Christian fellowship, than to any present-day Reformed Protestant.

That's from, I'll put the link in later, a thread about St. Augustine.[LINK, Opinions on St. Augustine]

The funny thing is, and I cannot go find a page number, quotation or state the context, but I got the idea from reading Confessions, that Augustine felt called to the Roman Catholic church, not in the sense that it was a the one true denomination, but that that was his field to plow, his row to hoe in life. I don't think he would extend a hand to a Catholic becuase of Catholicism, but he'd want to be friends with those who served God best. He'd be impressed by people like him, of course, philosophers and those with great reasoning capability, but anyone with a great spirit, learned of God.

[EleventhHour]

Whoo, a bit worn out, I think because I didn't sleep well. I have a problem, in that my friend cut me off from computer use at home (it's her computer and her home). I was a bit shocked, since she did it in a note, without saying why.

I didn't ask, since I haven't had the best of experiences talking to her about anything. I kept going over everything, and I realized she heard a message from someone else to me on the answering machine. She drew the complete wrong conclusion. I don't think that's really fair, but she's obviously sure she's right. I don't know how I'm supposed to handle this. I got this far by not worrying about it and by going by the assumption that God is not hard hearted and does not take what is not his, though.

[EleventhHour]

Bleh, just got my post wiped out again, and I forgot to copy. Bleh.

I had my darned horoscope on my mind today; I gotten my birth chart worked up years ago, not like the daily little blurbs in the paper, but a really complex analysis. Very soon after, I threw it in the garbage, and went to confession. To my surprise the priest said, "well, the 3 Kings were astrologers". I was surprised, because this was the pastor, and he was known to be conservative, I thought. I could write more about him since I'd talked to him a few times, but it's running late.

Anyway, I never got good resolution to the episode, and even regretted getting rid of the thing later. I had expected to hear what every Christian church believes, that this practice is not in God's will. By now I realize I got an answer from someone who got to be pastor by not sinning, but he did not have much love for God or people, just a love of keeping clear of lust. Not a love of keeping clear of all sin, I guess.

______________________________

About not going to church, which continues to bother me with no satisfactory resolution, I realize that it is probably the result of having the wrong priorities for many years, though I don't know it. It should be:

1. God
2. Self
3. Family and Friends
4. Church
5. Job

I think that's it. Anyway, I think I put church and others before God for so many years, believing it was the right priority. I never knew what I just posted till a few years ago. It has taken a while to get the new leaven in and the old leaven out.

I also didn't really realize that of course, Satan has been struggling to keep me from going. I thought it was all my own fault or even that God hated me. But it's not either. I have an enemy who I sometimes forget about.

But, 'He who is in you is stronger than he who is in the world.'

[Chrysostom]

Wow, sorry about the troubles with your friend and her computer.

Originally Posted by EleventhHour

I also didn't really realize that of course, Satan has been struggling to keep me from going. I thought it was all my own fault or even that God hated me. But it's not either. I have an enemy who I sometimes forget about.

Also consider this passage, though:

James 1:14-15
14 But each person is tempted when he is lured and enticed by his own desire.
15 Then desire when it has conceived gives birth to sin, and sin when it is fully grown brings forth death.

Even in our own wretched sin and unworthiness, we must look to the cross, for it shows us Christ's righteousness given to us. We trust not in our own righteousness -- we are all unworthy of ourselves. Rather, we trust in the perfect righteousness of Jesus, which has been given to us.

[EleventhHour]

Originally Posted by mustbenothing

Wow, sorry about the troubles with your friend and her computer.

Also consider this passage, though:

James 1:14-15
14 But each person is tempted when he is lured and enticed by his own desire.
15 Then desire when it has conceived gives birth to sin, and sin when it is fully grown brings forth death.

Even in our own wretched sin and unworthiness, we must look to the cross, for it shows us Christ's righteousness given to us. We trust not in our own righteousness -- we are all unworthy of ourselves. Rather, we trust in the perfect righteousness of Jesus, which has been given to us.

Yes, I know I must have left some doors open, I have quite a few things I've not settled in my own mind. I think until today that astrology was actually one of them, even though my conscience told me otherwise.

If it sounds like I'm trying to wriggle out of my own responsibility, I'd like to say in my own defense that I'm terribly used to blaming myself for absolutely everything. Okay, enough of being defensive.

Thanks for reminding me of my friend, and taking the focus off myself and my enemy. This astrology thing has been bugging me for a long time, thank goodness, I guess. It should have. It seems pretty clear that it's not something I should indulge in, and certainly never encourage in anyone else .

I checked out some books earlier tonight: Michael Youssef's Know Your Real Enemy and Signa Bodishbaugh's The Journey to Wholeness in Christ. I would have gotten Tom Coburn's Breach of Trust, which is about how Washington makes outsiders into insiders and gets them to be professional politicians, rather than good representatives and legislators (I think). Someone had already checked it out though.

I'll miss my Alanon meeting, but that happens sometimes. I meant to leave earlier, but just didn't get myself organized. That's okay, I want to spend some time posting since I haven't been on the computer much over the weekend.


Hope you're having a fine evening. I'm kind of thrilled that it's cold out, since it's been warm in my part of the country, and I wasn't ready for it.

[EleventhHour]

The branch library near my house is closing, so I think I'll go home, get something to eat and get on the bus for downtown. I have a cold, but it's not too bad. I have the Walgreen's cheap version of Dayquil, which seems to do a good job drying it up.

I really want to send Gene a PM. Haven't had a good talk with him in a while, and want to see how his mom's doing after the stroke. I know he's plenty busy and has a lot more to do at the board now that he's a supermod, but I want to hi to him.

Someone posted a thread in Apologetics about how to minister to Wiccans. That's really difficult. There are a few Christian Wiccans who occasionally post at a Charmed board where I post. There are also a lot of Wiccans, or kids who are Wicca wannabes. I do my best to tell them what I can. I have asked repeatedly where Christ says to cast spells, etc., but no one answers. Some of them say they feel drawn to it and don't see anything wrong with it, and that only EVIL witchcraft is forbidden.

Nuts, I have more to say , but got to go.

[EleventhHour]

Well, never made it downtown, but got to listen to some Christian radio on WAKW. It's a really good station. I am sure there are other Xtian stations in my radius, but none of them caught me the way this one did. There is Tony Evans, Jack Hayford, Allistair Beg, Greg Laurie, Chuck Colson, Dr. James Dobson, etc. It's a bit like the Angel network on satellite. There is TBN also, but I almost exclusively see only horrible preaching on that station.

Honestly, I don't care much for contemporary Christian music--pretty odd for someone who posts here, isn't it? But I like most of the other programs. I've been able to apply so many things I've heard to my life. You can't listen for a few hours on a weeknight and not hear a good sermon.

I also take some time out to listen to Loveline sometimes. It's not only a secular show, but they advise all kinds of things Christians wouldn't. But they do talk a lot about how to get off drugs, why to not do them in the first place, how to get help for various things. They talk about health and biology a lot. Brain chemicals, all sorts of things. No, this is not a show that is ever going to advise people to pray to solve a problem. It's not Family Matters.

Adam Corolla and Dr. Drew (Pinsky) are the hosts and sometimes they have guests. Sometimes they are experts in some field, but usually it's a member of a band, a movie or television star, the pop icon type. Okay not usually the biggest pop icons, and they are more likely to promote a show that doesn't have the highest ratings, but sometimes they get the big folks. Also, a lot of the time the small-time actors/band members are more interesting than the big celebrities. The big celebs seem to often have their interview worked out ahead of time, say the same jokes on every interview show, and are not always as interesting once they've gotten to the top of their game.

Well, most of the answers about biology are not for the family hour, such as the answer to a call from a Christian who had made it to two months of sexual abstinence. He had a perfectly legitimate question, was worried about a recent change in his urine, and Dr. Drew explained it and told him is was perfectly normal for a man who engages in zero sexual activity to have this physical side effect. And it explains something else I read. I don't know if I should talk about it here, but it is something someone may worry about. I used to worry about a particular feature, till I found out it was normal. I was so relieved when I found that out.

______________________________________

Here's a quote from the thread How Do You Know?

Originally Posted by CheshireCat

Well interestingly enough, statistics (and I have heard this from virtually everywhere for like the last 5 to 7 years) overwhelmingly state that couples who get married after they hit about 27 or 28 have a greater chance of staying together. IOW, the divorce rate drops off dramatically, like Wyle E. Coyote taking a big step of a cliff, after the age of 28 for candidates getting married. In fact, that statistic is so stark and so huge, that people in the "business" (so to speak) have a term for people who get married younger: Starter Marriages. Basically, a "dry run" or "practice marriage", if you will.

It's very interesting, this thread from Advice; the guy who made the thread wants to know how you know when you've found "the right one" (to marry).

Another comment I found interesting was that if you are looking for someone to serve you or to complete you, you have the wrong motive.

[EleventhHour]

"Is the Roman Catholic Church a true Church of Jesus Christ? Is it really a Christian denomination?

This post will proceed with the assumption that protestant theology is correct (Westminster Confession of Faith standards) and with the assumption that the Papists are wrong in their views. There are other threads in which this can be argued, of course, but the question I’ve had in my mind for some time is whether they can be considered a true Christian denomination while being wrong on the points at which they disagree with Protestants.

Ignoring the elevation of tradition to the level of Scriupture, the sale of indulgences, the distortions of the priesthood, the mass, the doctrine of transubstantiation, the fabrication of purgatory, etc., I would like to focus only on the Roman Catholic view of justification. The Romanist view of justification, I believe, is all that is needed to show that the Roman Catholic Church is not a true Church of Jesus Christ.


The Council of Trent published its decree on justification in 1547 in response to the Reformation, and at that time it was declared “irreformable.”

The Council of Trent teaches that justification means to be made righteous. Not to be declared or accounted righteous, but to be made righteous:

"In that new birth there is bestowed upon them the grace whereby they are made just." Justification is "the justice of God, not that whereby He Himself is just but that whereby He maketh us just." (Council of Trent Session 6 Chapter 3)

Rome teaches that people earn the merit of Christ as unbelievers by their "good works":

"Congruous merit is the favorable quality associated with the good works done by the unregenerate man before his conversion and by which it is congruous it is fitting for God to be moved to bestow grace on him."

Chapters 5 & 6 Cannon 4 Session 6 The Council of Trent says that man's will "cooperates toward disposing and preparing itself for obtaining the grace of justification" and then goes on to outright teach merit of salvation and salvation by works as well as the eternal damnation of anyone who disagrees:

"If anyone saith that the good works of one that is justified are in such manner the gifts of God as that they are not also the good merits of him that is justified, or that the justified man by the good works that he performs does not truly merit increase of grace and eternal life let him be accursed."

"If anyone saith that men are justified either by the sole imputation of the justice of Christ to the exclusion of the grace and charity which is inherent in him, let him be accursed." (Cannon 11)

The Roman Catholic Church teaches salvation by works, pure and simple, and at Trent it was declared that those who disagree with its doctrines were "anathema"--accursed and damned to hell forever. This view of justification was declared irreformable at Trent and confirmed and declared irreformable again at Vatican I and Vatican II. Therefore the Roman Catholic Church still espouses these damnable heresies today and cannot therefore be considered a true Church of Jesus Christ, due simply to their view on justification and without any of their other many problems being considered.

However, this does not mean that I believe everyone within the Roman Catholic Church to be damned. I believe it is possible that someone could be in that organization and be inconsistant in their beliefs in a way that made it possible for them to truly be believers. I am discussing the official position of the system here and its official status.
_________________________

Donny, the Reformed position regarding the Roman Catholic church has always been that they are not a Christian denomination. And they have not changed their damnable doctrines; indeed they have declared them to be irreformable! What do the Scriptures say about someone who teaches a way to God other than what Scripture has taught--another Gospel?

Galatians 1:8
But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed.

Roman Catholics teach that we are saved by works in addition to faith. They teach that we merit the sacrifice of Christ; they teach that we earn God's favor. They teach another gospel. Let them be accursed."

Travis