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Unread 10-06-2003, 02:51 PM   #31
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Well, not only the women, but I strongly disagree with you!!

Men are just as emotional as women, perhaps even more so!! It's just that women are more acustom to expressing their emotions while men typically shut-down, shut-out, turn-off access to, and otherwise totally disavow any emotion that makes them look and feel weak.

So, women are typically more emotionally healthy in that regard while men are typically emotionally compacted. Sure, women can be shut down too. Big time!! But when that's the case, they are considered a "b*tch", men are considered "Manly, Strong".

The flip-side, of course, is that if men and women are expressing their emotions, then women are "emotional", "overreactive", "difficult", and, the classic, "just being women", while men are being "wimpy", "weak", and "might be gay".

Hm-hmm.

So women are not allowed to have emotions, tho, we, as men, "let" them have them anyway and "humor" and "tolerate" them. And, we as men are only allowed to feel happiness (as long as it's not too mushy), victory, and anger.

Not a very tenable place to be.

As far as a woman president goes, I've got three words for you:

MARGARET FRICKIN' THATCHER!!!


England is reknowned for two "Iron Maidens" - she was the first one!

MAGGIE FOR PREZ!!!!

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Last edited by CheshireCat; 10-06-2003 at 03:00 PM.
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Unread 10-06-2003, 03:07 PM   #32
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Yeah, I can agree with what your saying. I didnt mean to say men have less emotion, its just that they dont act or express it as much as a woman would. Thus, there could be choices made based on that emotion, whereas a man would act more on his head than his heart. Which is not to say that a man will always make the best decisions over a woman, but simply in the issues a president might have to deal with, like war, less emotion would be better.

Which is also not to say a woman could not be president, as is evident with margaret thatcher. I think there are women out there who would be better presidents than some men. But they largely have to take on some "manly" characteristics to do so. But, like you said before, women can do things some better than men, like relating. This may help a president in keeping peace or foreign relations, but when push comes to shove and war comes, a man would be better suited to handle it. The best president should have a healthy mix of both manly and womanly chacterstics.
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Unread 10-06-2003, 03:43 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CheshireCat
Also, keep in mind, some of the greatest blues artists in history were female singers.

So, where does the guitar figure into this? Well, truth is, the guitar - all the macho crap aside - is a rather simple way to express all this blues. In the classical world, many women are a phenomenal and better than their male counterparts. Technically speaking, blues guitar is much easier to play than say concert violin. It's not lesser of an instrument, but it's easily within reach.

Chesh
Yeah, there are tons of great soulful women blues singers that I enjoy. However, I have yet to hear a woman blues or rock guitarist that I gave a rat's hind quarters about. What I like to hear in rock and blues guitar is soulful aggression. (If there was a women guitarist that had both soul and aggression, I wouldn't like her anyway, because I don't like aggressive women.)

As for classical guitar, I don't think gender matters much, because it's a totally different feel. But in blues and especially rock, guy guitarists rule.
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Unread 10-06-2003, 04:38 PM   #34
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guitar2326 - well, there again. That is to imply that a woman would not be as rational as a man, which, there again is another stereo-type. I would submit that women could actually be much more rational than men in this respect because they don't have the male ego stuff and the testosterone going on that men do. This is usually portrayed in movies with the trigger happy 5-star general who wants to use every national crisis as an opportunity to blow stuff up.

How many times have you heard about female secretaries that save their bosses career by "inadvertantly" losing or misplacing some hot-headed, testosternoe driven, egotistical memo or communication that would have gotten her boss (and her indirectly) fired if it ever reached it's intended audience? Happens more than you think.

As far as manly characteristics, well, that is true in all things. We all are, to varying degress, masculine and feminine, and we need to draw on both at different times. Maggie may have been a big cold and frigid, but she could draw on both, and British politics can be more cold and calculating than American politics ever could.

The woman who has the ovaries to be Prez would be a force to be reckoned with.

Blues - well, that's a clear-cut, no-win double standard.

Quote:
BluesJunkie said:
Yeah, there are tons of great soulful women blues singers that I enjoy. However, I have yet to hear a woman blues or rock guitarist that I gave a rat's hind quarters about. What I like to hear in rock and blues guitar is soulful aggression. (If there was a women guitarist that had both soul and aggression, I wouldn't like her anyway, because I don't like aggressive women.)

As for classical guitar, I don't think gender matters much, because it's a totally different feel. But in blues and especially rock, guy guitarists rule.
In essence, look at what you said: In order for a Female blues guitarist to cut it, she would have to be aggressive, which to you would be unappealing.

You are taking your particular taste and opinion, and smithing it into a general statement or "truth" about female rock and blues guitarists not cutting or comparing to men.

First, I don't think that blues is or should be patently "aggressive". Edgy, perhaps, but not necessarily aggressive. Can it be aggressive? Sure. Guess what, women can be mega-aggressive. At the risk of sounding chauvanistic, ever heard of PMS?

True Blues isn't about aggression, it's about the expression of unadulterated emotions, aggression simply being one of them.

So, what you are really saying is that you personally do not find aggressive female artists palatable, which comes down to a matter of personal taste and not some unequivocable ruling on merits and talent.

Now, as far as the destinction between singers and guitarists, as far as Blues is concerned, that is really a non-distinction, since one of the hallmarks of Blues is the bluesman's, or blueswoman's for that matter, ability to sing thru the instrument.

If you can tremble and quiver and melisma your voice in a blues fashion, it's not much of a stretch to do the same with a guitar. It's actually a helluva lot easier.

And, like I said, as we see more and more grrrl guitarists getting interested in rock and blues music, we will see some stellar guitarists indeed. Truth is, Joan Jett and Lita Ford could play the pants off of a lot of the new guy guitarists today. And if you ever doubt a grrrl's ability to rock good and grungy like a guy, listen to L7.

BTW, what is your definition of "Blues" just so we are on the same page?

Chesh

Last edited by CheshireCat; 10-06-2003 at 04:50 PM.
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Unread 10-06-2003, 06:09 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BluesJunkie
Yeah, there are tons of great soulful women blues singers that I enjoy. However, I have yet to hear a woman blues or rock guitarist that I gave a rat's hind quarters about.
i agree with this with the one exception being that I really like bonnie rait... but only because she plays guitar in the kitchen
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Unread 10-06-2003, 06:20 PM   #36
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Unread 10-06-2003, 06:20 PM   #37
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Dane - cute tho I still think you are a chavaunistic pig!! Of course, odds are, you might wear that distinction as a badge of honor!

Blues - Not to put to fine a point on it, but when I ask for your definition of what Blues is, I mean - in all seriousness - are the Blues, like I said, an expression of unadulterated emotions, aggression simply being one of them, or are the Blues an aggression, masculine, testosterone-driven, egotisical affair, much akin to what has been called . . . well, I won't go there.

But, suffice to say, if your definition of the Blues is the latter, then, yes, women will never cut it in a genre of aggression, masculinity, testosterone-driven egotism, nor do I think they would ever want to, and I can't say I would blame them.

BTW, I totally respect you and your opinion and I just wanted clarification.

Chesh

Last edited by CheshireCat; 10-06-2003 at 06:26 PM.
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Unread 10-06-2003, 06:56 PM   #38
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I don't have time for a lengthy post right now, but I'll get to it soon.
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Unread 10-06-2003, 08:46 PM   #39
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Because if you're able to keep time then you're better than me and therefore you deflate my ego and therefore...it's just a bad situation.

Just kiddin'.

It's just some gimped-up stereotype is all it is.
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Unread 10-06-2003, 09:05 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CheshireCat
Blues - well, that's a clear-cut, no-win double standard.

In essence, look at what you said: In order for a Female blues guitarist to cut it, she would have to be aggressive, which to you would be unappealing.

You are taking your particular taste and opinion, and smithing it into a general statement or "truth" about female rock and blues guitarists not cutting or comparing to men.
Yes, I stand behind what I said. I'm not trying to speak from Sinai; I'm just giving my opinion about what I like to listen to.

Quote:
First, I don't think that blues is or should be patently "aggressive". Edgy, perhaps, but not necessarily aggressive. Can it be aggressive? Sure. Guess what, women can be mega-aggressive. At the risk of sounding chauvanistic, ever heard of PMS?

True Blues isn't about aggression, it's about the expression of unadulterated emotions, aggression simply being one of them.

So, what you are really saying is that you personally do not find aggressive female artists palatable, which comes down to a matter of personal taste and not some unequivocable ruling on merits and talent.
I'm not saying women can't do blues or whatever. What I am saying is I haven't heard a women blues guitarist that I like, and, although there is a slight possibility there may sometime be an exception, women do not play blues guitar like I like to hear it played. Is because women can't technically play? No, it's because they don't have the same feel the guys have.

Quote:
Now, as far as the destinction between singers and guitarists, as far as Blues is concerned, that is really a non-distinction, since one of the hallmarks of Blues is the bluesman's, or blueswoman's for that matter, ability to sing thru the instrument.

If you can tremble and quiver and melisma your voice in a blues fashion, it's not much of a stretch to do the same with a guitar. It's actually a helluva lot easier.
I don't connect singers and guitarists, because I like singers for different reasons than I like guitar players. I also like female singers for different reasons than I like male singers.

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Truth is, Joan Jett and Lita Ford could play the pants off of a lot of the new guy guitarists today.
Well, that's saying a lot isn't it.

Quote:
And if you ever doubt a grrrl's ability to rock good and grungy like a guy, listen to L7.
I think they're disgusting.

Quote:
BTW, what is your definition of "Blues" just so we are on the same page?
The issue isn't what my definition of blues is. It's what my definition of good blues guitar is. It's hard for me to define, but I like guitarists with that certain blues feel. Guys like Freddie King, Albert King, Hendrix, Clapton, Page, Beck, Slash, etc...

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDanish
i agree with this with the one exception being that I really like bonnie rait...
I like Bonnie Raitt also, and "I Can't Make You Love Me" is one of my favorite songs. Her guitar playing, though, is nothing special. I can take it or leave it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CheshireCat
Blues - Not to put to fine a point on it, but when I ask for your definition of what Blues is, I mean - in all seriousness - are the Blues, like I said, an expression of unadulterated emotions, aggression simply being one of them, or are the Blues an aggression, masculine, testosterone-driven, egotisical affair, much akin to what has been called . . . well, I won't go there.
No, I don't think blues should be "well, I won't go there" music, and it is about different emotions. However, I personally don't want to hear a woman's emotions expressed through blues guitar. It does absolutely nothing for me.

Do I want to hear wild aggression all the time? No, definately not! I also enjoy smooth restraint, sublety in phrasing, etc... I guess, "agression" wasn't the best term to describe what I'm talking about. For whatever reason, the guys just have a certain edge the women don't.

Finally, I'm not at all saying women are physically incapable of playing guitar well. I'm simply saying that in the area of rock and blues, they don't play what I want to hear.

I'm also not some testosterone fueled metal-head women hater. I like tons of "chick" music that most of the guys on here would think is gay. Stuff like Madonna, Paula Abdul, The Bangles, Carole King, Fleming and John, etc... I've just never heard a rock or blues woman guitarist that I really like, and I probably never will.
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Unread 10-06-2003, 10:28 PM   #41
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Blues - right, well, that's cool. You are more than entitled to listen to the music you want to listen to.

BTW, the "I won't go there" bit has to do with what you described as "testosterone fueled metal-head", which I have nothing against, but is often referred to by an amusing little rhyming euphemism which I don't know if I can say on here. I'll give you a hint: it rhymes with "Jock-Rock" and is analagous to the other rhyming convention we jokingly alluded to earlier.

Also, disgusting or not, L7 definitely proved they can rock out with the boys; so have a lot of other "chick-bands" that I know of. It's only a matter of time before they ramp it up and match the number of "boy-bands" . . . even tho that designation usually refers to the "boy-bands" we love to hate.

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Unread 10-06-2003, 11:08 PM   #42
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The topic of the thread, why are we prejudice against girl guitarists?
We're not.
We like what we like, and if that includes woman guitarists then we like them.
Its not a matter of which sex is better.
But of course we all know that males play funk guitar better than women.









(enough emoticons to imply that the last statement was sarcastic?)
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Unread 10-06-2003, 11:39 PM   #43
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Excellent, quite sarcastic indeed!

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Unread 10-07-2003, 11:15 PM   #44
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speaking as a girl who plays guitar, i've never recieved any umm. . .prejudicism (haha is that a word?) from guys. most of the guy musicians that i know think it's hott when girls play guitar.
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Unread 10-08-2003, 02:15 AM   #45
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Thank you!! Thank you!! Totally! That's what I am talking about!

Chicks ripping up on guitars is totally hot!

hm-hmm . . . . sorry, kinda got carried away . . . .



Anyway, can't we all just get along!?!

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