Clapping, Dancing, Standing

**Sean** · 10-06-2003, 12:38 PM

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Originally Posted by lightknight77

So God changes over time and that means that His word is open to criticsm?

I never even implied such.

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Of course people who break dance and all that mess to look impressive are wrong. The point of dancing and acting as David said,"undignified." isn't to draw attention to yourself but rather the action of surpassing embarrassment and glorifying God. But there is a time and a place for it as Ecc. puts it. There are times when there is no place for dancing like namely, in the middle of a sermon. But as long as David, the man after God's own heart pleased God with his, "foolishness" in dancing then there should be no criticsm of such a thing. Unless you wish to act like his wife who was then made baren after her getting upset that David was dancing. Don't you see, she did it then and many Christians are still doing it now. Be careful that the habits of the church of man don't interfere with God's desire for the the body of Christ. The church without walls.

....and my entire argument went over your head....

Chico · 10-06-2003, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lightknight77

Why not corporately? It says that he was acting even as the lowest in his kingdom "2Sa 6:20 Then David returned to bless his household. And Michal the daughter of Saul came out to meet David, and said, How glorious was the king of Israel to day, who uncovered himself to day in the eyes of the handmaids of his servants, as one of the vain fellows shamelessly uncovereth himself!" I find it ridiculus that the king of God's nation would be worshiping alone in such a large number of people. I only used that verse as the most well known of all the dancing verses to save time. So here are most of the others.
Job 21:11 They send forth their little ones like a flock, and their children dance.
Psa 149:3 Let them praise his name in the dance: let them sing praises unto him with the timbrel and harp.
Jer 31:13 Then shall the virgin rejoice in the dance, both young men and old together: for I will turn their mourning into joy, and will comfort them, and make them rejoice from their sorrow.
Also, where does it refer to keep worship orderly? The Bible says to worship Him in spirit and in truth. If you don't worship Him in the same way you would alone then you are taking some focus from God to those around you. Worshiping isn't a group thing. Every individual worships different. Sure, you can worship together but that doesn't mean you are to act like everyone else. Worship is about God, and only God. It doesn't matter how many people are with you.

well, not to be picky or anything, but in verse 20 of 2 Sam. 6, that you posted above, it does say that David RETURNED to his household. could this not mean that David worshipped in dance away from this large group as you call it, and then returned to them? hmmmm.

and also, which i can't prove because i'm not a historical scholar or anything, i think that the dance mentioned in this culture was much more organized, i picture something like a Jewish dance, or even an Indian ritual to an extent. i could be wrong on this though.

and as for your questioning of the orderly worship thing, which i thought was pretty obvious, it is found in 1 Cor. 14:40. "But all things must be done properly and in an orderly manner." in chapters 13 and 14, Paul is addressing worship in the church, specifically tongues and prophecy. he ends this matter with the above verse.

chris

Lightknight · 10-06-2003, 06:33 PM

No, he was returning to his household. He has a house within his kingdom. It says he was dancing in front of the people where even the lowly female servants could see him (his wife got angry at this). There is no organized dance for bringing in the ark of the covenant.
Paul doesn't mention worship at all before saying that all things are to be done orderly. Be carefull not to take things out of context buddy.

1Cr 14:37 If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.

1Cr 14:38 But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.
1Cr 14:39 Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.
1Cr 14:40 Let all things be done decently and in order.
(I left out the verses before this point because it goes into the telling women they can't speak. But before that it states that God isn't the author of confusion.)
The main thing he is talking about is women talking, prophesy and speaking in tongues. not worship

Chico · 10-07-2003, 10:31 AM

you mean to tell me that there was never a reference to the church in these passages? are you saying that Paul excluded tongues and prophesy from worship? maybe you need to reread and rethink your context buddy.

are you also saying that there shouldn't be order in worship? we should just do as we want and act like idiots. i don't really see what you are trying to argue against as far as orderly worship goes.

chris

Lightknight · 10-07-2003, 01:48 PM

I'm telling you that he didn't include worchip here. Read the scripture. Prophesy and tongues are not worship. There are gifts of the Spirit. Maybe there should be a specified worship time but why wouldn't you think that we should be allowed to worship God with all of our hearts whenever we worship. Every thing we do should be done well. If corporate worship ever takes away from the exultation of God then there is too much of man in it. Think of it realisticly as well as biblically.

Chico · 10-08-2003, 08:33 AM

how in the world do you not put tongues and prophecy as worship? and this is assuming they are applicable today, but this will not become a cessation thread. i'm tired of those. in John, Jesus tells us that true worshippers will worship in Spirit and in Truth. the only way to know what worshipping in Spirit means is to look at what the Spirit does according to scripture. Rom. 12 tells us that living a sacrficial life is a "spiritual act of worship". therefore our lifestyle can be worship to God. if this is true, then the use of the things the Spirit produces in our lives is worship. what does the Spirit produce? in Gal., we learn about the "Fruit of the Spirit". also, i think in 1 Cor., we learn about spiritual gifts. one way to worship in Spirit, is to use the things the Spirit produces in us. therefore, using our spiritual gift is worship.

chris

Lightknight · 10-08-2003, 12:32 PM

Speaking in tongues and prophecy are gifts of the spirit. They cannot be worship bedause they don't come from you.

Chico · 10-08-2003, 12:33 PM

since when is worship about us? then how do you explain that we worship in Spirit? if we are worshipping is the Spirit, then it isn't from us.

chris

Lightknight · 10-08-2003, 12:35 PM

I have no arguement with the fact that your lifestyle can be worship. In fact, God said He desires obedience above all.
But the Bible does actually say to praise him with dancing.
Psa 150:4 Praise him with the timbrel and dance: praise him with stringed instruments and organs.

Chico · 10-08-2003, 01:05 PM

i don't deny the fact that there is a place for dance in worship. i just don't think that using David a defense for that position. verses like the one you just posted are much better. but this goes much further than dancing now. i would still like to hear from you how you think we worship in Spirit? and it also seems like you have the idea that worship is about us reaching God, but i disagree with that. i believe worship is about God reaching us. it is about a righteous, perfect, and holy God reaching an imperfect people that don't deserve Him. when we approach worship like we have to reach God, it is almost like God doesn't want to reach us, because we have to. also, it puts an unnecessary amount of attention on us, instead of Christ.

chris

Lightknight · 10-08-2003, 03:34 PM

NO, during our worship and praise God reaches us. Worship isn't Him reaching us. It is us worshiping Him. Hence the name "worship". Your main arguement is that that verse means that dancing has to be orderly. I have explained why that verse has nothing to do with it. You have to prove that wrong or you have no case and this will become a cheap post thread.

Chico · 10-09-2003, 08:32 AM

you have proved nothing. if you want to take the arguement for orderly worship, specifically 1 Cor. 14:40, and what it is referring to, then we can completely move that to Theology. i know i have already made a thread, just to get opinions, but if you would really like to debate this more, we can start it there. you haven't provided any proof. you've just provided your opinion.

we can also start a worship thread if you like?

chris

rockin4theking · 10-09-2003, 12:46 PM

Thread closed.

If you guys want to debate, go to Theology and start another thread.