Do human beings have free will?

Luke · 08-16-2001, 07:07 PM

Okay, there's about four threads going related to the topic, so it's a hot topic. I think it's time to take a poll. The big question--do human beings have free will?

Remember to use Scripture to back up your responses.

Sola Gratia · 08-16-2001, 07:23 PM

How are we defining free will?

Luke · 08-16-2001, 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sola Gratia
How are we defining free will?

The ability of an unregenerate human to equally choose right or wrong, especially in the decision of accepting or rejecting Christ.

Sola Gratia · 08-16-2001, 07:37 PM

Then no we do not, we have the freedom to act within our nature, which is sinful, therefore we cannot and will not choose God on our own. Total depravity.

Romans 3:10-12

Romans 8:7

trhoke · 08-16-2001, 08:33 PM

I agree with Sola Gratia and would add Eph. 2:1-10 to his list.

Tim

punkytree · 08-16-2001, 09:29 PM

i think its best to look back to Genesis. The first book of the Bible
It says God put Adam and Eve into the Garden and let them live there freely.
The only limitation was the tree of knowledge.
"You are free to eat from any tree in teh garden; but you must not eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat of it you will surely die."
but of course God didn't stop the serpent and and so they all ate on their own FREE will...
therefore all were doomed to hell
but John 3:16 states,
"WHOEVER believes in Him will not perish but have eternal life"
The Bible does not state,
"THE FEW CHOSEN"
but whoever, therefore, anyone can choose to Believe, and anyone can choose to accpet.

trhoke · 08-17-2001, 06:02 AM

punkytree said:

Quote:

The Bible does not state,
"THE FEW CHOSEN"
but whoever, therefore, anyone can choose to Believe, and anyone can choose to accpet

Eph. 1:3-6, 11, 2:1, 5, 6, 8-10

Romans 8:29-30, 33, and all of chapter 9; 11:5-8.

Tim

NoahsCoffeeShop · 08-17-2001, 06:31 AM

hey, regarding that whole free wil thing. i personally do not believe that we have "free will" pertaining to salvation, because it clearly states in Ephesians 2:4-5: "But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved)"
you see we have been saved only by God's mercy, love, and grace. it is absolutely nothing that we have done it also says in verse 8 " For be grace you have been saved trough faith; and that not of yourself, it is the gift of God; (9) not as a result of works, so that no man can boast."
in essence, we do not deserve to be saved, being the sinful creatures that we are. it is only by God's grace and love for us that we have any part in His kingdom.
TRUTH: GOD CHOSE US, WE DID NOT CHOSE HIM!

Luke · 08-17-2001, 06:51 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by punkytree
but John 3:16 states,
"WHOEVER believes in Him will not perish but have eternal life"
The Bible does not state,
"THE FEW CHOSEN"
but whoever, therefore, anyone can choose to Believe, and anyone can choose to accpet.

Let's look at the structure of this verse right quick:
"For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have eternal life." (John 3:16, NASB)

So, those that believe in Christ won't perish, according to John 3:16. Someone needs to explain to me how this verse requires free will.

The big question here--who are "those that believe"? As is the case whenever a single passage of Scripture is left unclear, we must interpret the unclear Scripture with clear Scripture.

"And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord; and as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed." (Acts 13:48, NASB--emphasis mine)

So, according to Luke (not me, the Biblical writer), it's those who are appointed that believe? Does Jesus back this up? Sure.

"But you do not believe, because you are not my sheep" (John 10:26, NASB).
Notice Christ does not say, you are not my sheep because you do not believe--it's the other way around.

"He who is of God hears the words of God; for this reason you do not hear them, because you are not of God." (John 8:47, NASB)
Here we see the same teaching. You'll hear what God says (preaching, including to repentance) if you belong to God in the first place ("belongs to God" is phrase the NIV uses), but not otherwise.

Paul is also not lax in addressing this issue--he does it more clearly than anyone else: "Just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before Him. In love ⁵He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will"

So, according to this passage, God chose who would be saved. That lines up perfectly with Romans 9: "For He says to Moses, "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion." ¹⁶So then it [salvation] does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy."

I don't see much room left for free will in salvation.

Luke · 08-17-2001, 06:56 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by punkytree
i think its best to look back to Genesis. The first book of the Bible
It says God put Adam and Eve into the Garden and let them live there freely.
The only limitation was the tree of knowledge.
"You are free to eat from any tree in teh garden; but you must not eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat of it you will surely die."
but of course God didn't stop the serpent and and so they all ate on their own FREE will...
therefore all were doomed to hell

Now to address the top half here. This will be much shorter.
Okay, your repitition of Genesis 2-3 is sound.

Here's the key question--where in Genesis 3--or anywhere else--does it say they had free will. Where does it say they ate of their own free will? The answer...it doesn't

guitarman · 08-17-2001, 05:44 PM

Rock on Luke

. "Whosoever" in 3:16 is used as a function word to introduce a relative clause. In other words...this passage pretty much has nothing to do with the free will question

. But you did an awesome job backing your claims up!

In Christ,
Aaron

**+Donny** · 08-17-2001, 07:49 PM

basically ur saying that anything we do that is good is forced on us by God, but everything we do that is bad is us, right?

MrCrabby · 08-17-2001, 08:38 PM

No, Donny, i don't believe we're forced to do what's right.
God gives us faith, but we have to use it, so, in a way, i think we do have free will, i mean, God said we did, why wouldn't we?

Luke · 08-17-2001, 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by GzusPhreek2k
i mean, God said we did [have free will], why wouldn't we?

Where?

**+Donny** · 08-17-2001, 10:17 PM

Well, I would agree Luke, but it just doesnt make sense. If all our Good deeds are forced on us by God, then we cant go Good, then why does Jesus tell us to do good and all those verses about doing Good, when we cant