Why are some Saved and some Damned?

joelsdad · 07-06-2003, 01:35 PM

Quote:

The rest of your answers are bullflop. Blah blah blah love not rights, etc. etc. IT comes down to this. If anything influences a decision of the will, that influence ultimately comes directly from God.

If by this statement you are saying that because God is the first cause of all that exists and thus evil exists only at the allowance of God, then yes I will agree. If you are trying to say that God is the direct cause of tempatation then no I disagree.

Cadence · 07-06-2003, 04:02 PM

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Originally Posted by Joel

BeautifulMess: Joelsdad: Answer your question??? It was God's plan to allow it. He knew Adam would blow it, and from the beginning of time it was His plan to allow Adam to sin. He did not compel Adam to do so, but He allowed him to, and it was His plan to allow him to.

So it's according to foreknowledge like arminians/non-calvinists affirm.

Jeff · 07-06-2003, 06:02 PM

direct/indirect matter when you are talking about rights and wrongs. We we aren't. I am asking why God would take it upon himself to make flawless creatures in his image flawed and then damn them to hell for eternity because of it. Indirectly or directly does not matter as we are not BLAMING God or saying that he shouldnt be ALLOWED to. I am asking why, since he loves perfectly, he would WANT to. If you give me a reason that God would want to damn millions of people that leaves both his justice and perfect love intact, we'll be done.

Cadence · 07-06-2003, 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff

direct/indirect matter when you are talking about rights and wrongs. We we aren't. I am asking why God would take it upon himself to make flawless creatures in his image flawed and then damn them to hell for eternity because of it. Indirectly or directly does not matter as we are not BLAMING God or saying that he shouldnt be ALLOWED to. I am asking why, since he loves perfectly, he would WANT to. If you give me a reason that God would want to damn millions of people that leaves both his justice and perfect love intact, we'll be done.

It's because people reject God. If someone rejects God why would they want to be in heaven where God is? He doesn't WANT to as He said that He wishes that no man should perish, but that all should come to repentance. but humans persist in their rejection of God and He let's them have their way.

The opposite of God's presence is hell.

Jeff · 07-06-2003, 06:45 PM

that means about as much as my hypothetical, as it is not taught in the bible.

Cadence · 07-07-2003, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff

that means about as much as my hypothetical, as it is not taught in the bible.

John 3:17-18
I Peter 3:9

Jeff · 07-07-2003, 05:28 PM

well, at this point, I'll hang my hat up, and you can send this back over to theology, where they will smear your pitiful arminianism with exegesis mercilessly. I have no need to fight that battle out again for myself.

joelsdad · 07-07-2003, 06:52 PM

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So it's according to foreknowledge like arminians/non-calvinists affirm.

When it came to creatures who had free will yes-God took a ahn ds off approach though He knew what the outcome would be. But as for predestination thatr has only to do with the elect and the plan of God and not that God foreordains which pair of pants you will wear (unless of course apart form the normal free volitional choices we are allowed to make God would require a specific pair of pants for you toi wear.

Jeff · 07-07-2003, 08:09 PM

well that sounds nice, but you are ignoring the argument I have posed against purely "volitional" choices. You never even answered my question. Let me look it up again for you. Ah here it is :

If anything influences a decision of the will, that influence ultimately comes directly from God. If nothing influences it, it is random. A or B. Choose one and we will argue from there.

***BillSPrestonEsq*** · 07-08-2003, 11:21 AM

Jeff, I know as much Greek as most on the board. I am Arminian, and am not pitiful, your condescension however is.

You came in with a problem that is only a problem for the Calvinist. In our differences, I can easily explain your problem and have.

I answered, and you failed to respond. I believe now that you are merely a mocker of God, and Scripture gives clear instruction to answer not a fool according to his folly lest you be like him.

Biblically the fool has said there is no God, so you do qualify. We are to answer a fool according to his folly so that he will not be wise in his own conceit. I have done this.

I shall unsubscribe to this thread.

Jeff, I hope some day you do realize the truth. Before you are part of every knee bowing.

joelsdad · 07-08-2003, 12:09 PM

Quote:

If anything influences a decision of the will, that influence ultimately comes directly from God. If nothing influences it, it is random. A or B. Choose one and we will argue from there.

Well Jeff for the third time I will answer that question for you. As decisions are not made in a vacuum yes there are many factors that influence decisions. In the case of Adam and Eve it was to obey God or to obey Satan. there was a positive and negative influence. So they chose to obey Satan.

Now because there is nothing in the universe that is outside of the control of God then yes on that basis I can agree with you that ultimately it is all laid at the throne of God. Did God allow evil to come into existence ? Yes He did! Could Her have stopped it? I beleive the only coprrect answer is no! Not because He is powerless butr that if He chose to it would have made God have a choice and God can only choose the perfect, so this plan with all its heartaches, misery and woe is the perfect plan.

Jeff · 07-08-2003, 12:42 PM

haha misery and heartaches? You mean eternal damnation for the innocent. I'm unsubscribing too.