Baptism required for salvation?

**+Donny** · 06-27-2003, 09:18 PM

Baptism is the covenantal seal of entrance into the Church. If someone has not been baptized are they not part of the Church, and thus not part of the New Covenant? How can someone be saved if they are outside of the New Jerusalem, which contains the tree of life (Revelation 22:1-2)? Does not one have to be in covenant with God to be saved?

Luke · 06-27-2003, 09:23 PM

Under normal circumstances, I would consider someone who is not baptized to be unregenerate. Of course (and I'm paraphrasing the WCF at this point), I don't think that baptism and regeneration are linked to the point that one cannot be saved without baptism under any circumstance (e.g. the infamous "hit by a truck on the way to the pool" example).

Grace & Peace
Luke

Bryan · 06-27-2003, 09:36 PM

baptism is a sign of inclusion in the new covenant and the church, nothing more.

**+Donny** · 06-27-2003, 09:48 PM

Quote:

Under normal circumstances, I would consider someone who is not baptized to be unregenerate. Of course (and I'm paraphrasing the WCF at this point), I don't think that baptism and regeneration are linked to the point that one cannot be saved without baptism under any circumstance (e.g. the infamous "hit by a truck on the way to the pool" example).

Well, yes, I would argree that baptism does not regenerate, but baptism places one in the New Covenant. If one has not been placed in the New Covenant, how can they be saved? I argee with your answer, but I think I'm looking at something deeper. IOW, when you look at someone who has not been baptized, you don't say "He isn't saved because he hasn't been baptized", you say "He isn't saved because he isn't a member of the Church, the New Covenant." However, they both are intimately linked, for to be a member of the New Covenant, you must be baptized. Thus, by extension, can we not say this?

1)Baptism is the seal of entrance into the New Covenant
2)Those outside the New Covenant are reprobate
3)Thus, those who have not been baptized are reprobate

Now, in this case, baptism is not the cause of the salvation, but the lack of the baptism seems to declare that person not saved.

You brought up the "hit by a truck on the way to the pool" example. I agree with you. My question is this: How is that person a member of the New Covenant before baptism?

RJ1 · 06-27-2003, 09:55 PM

I dont think that baptism is required to be saved. I think that it is necessary after you are saved. It shows everyone....hey i got saved,lol (if that person really is).

Bryan · 06-27-2003, 10:47 PM

your inclusion in the new covenant is sealed by faith, not by an outward act of baptism. Baptism is a sign of said faith. By your logic everybody who is baptised is now saved because they are included in the New Covenant. Faith is the only thing that gets you into the true church. Baptism is only a sign of that inclusion.

**+Donny** · 06-28-2003, 02:20 PM

Quote:

your inclusion in the new covenant is sealed by faith, not by an outward act of baptism. Baptism is a sign of said faith. By your logic everybody who is baptised is now saved because they are included in the New Covenant. Faith is the only thing that gets you into the true church. Baptism is only a sign of that inclusion.

Okay, I should made a note that reformed paedobaptism should be assumed in this...

Now all those who are members of the New Covenant are saved (Romans 11) and baptism is not a sign of our subjective belief in God's promise, but in that very promise (just as circumcision was). Just as circumcision was the seal of entrance into the Old Covenant, baptism is the seal of entrance into the New Covenant.

smitty2622 · 06-28-2003, 03:30 PM

Now all those who are members of the New Covenant are saved (Romans 11)

That’s because they have been baptized, baptized by the spirit. The baptism that comes from man in water is useless compared to the baptism of the spirit from God. :kangel:

Peace

**slap_j** · 06-28-2003, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smitty2622

That’s because they have been baptized, baptized by the spirit.

And that comes from faith?

smitty2622 · 06-28-2003, 03:36 PM

Witch comes from God. :kgrin:

Peace

**Ted Logan** · 06-28-2003, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RJ1

I dont think that baptism is required to be saved. I think that it is necessary after you are saved. It shows everyone....hey i got saved,lol (if that person really is).

Saved from what?

Cadence · 06-28-2003, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ted Logan

Saved from what?

Sins and hell?

**+Donny** · 06-28-2003, 09:44 PM

Quote:

Now all those who are members of the New Covenant are saved (Romans 11) and baptism is not a sign of our subjective belief in God's promise, but in that very promise (just as circumcision was). Just as circumcision was the seal of entrance into the Old Covenant, baptism is the seal of entrance into the New Covenant.

TYPO!! I meant not instead of now....

Liquidrums · 06-29-2003, 12:57 AM

since when has Christianity been based solely on actions?

People need to stop questioning the little things that don't affect their lives and start living again.

Jesus Fish <>< · 06-29-2003, 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liquidrums

since when has Christianity been based solely on actions?

People need to stop questioning the little things that don't affect their lives and start living again.

No one ever said it was based solely on actions. The Bible commands us to test the things we hear, to see if they are based on God's Word. Please don't say that this is a "little thing" that doesn't affect our lives. If one does not have correct theology, then they won't be able to live their lives correctly.