[Jesus Fish <><]

Originally Posted by +Donny

Im not sure what I was referring to, but I think it was the end, which is heaven. Salvation isn't just regeneration.





There is no contradiction in what we said. A blessing of the NC is salvation, but not all who are members of the NC have that blessing.

Let me try to explain this... God has promised redemption to all who believe in His name. This promise is in the New Covenant, as the NC is the Covenant that finally brought real redemption. Now, it is also true that not all those in the New Covenant believe (and thus not all in the New Covenant receive redemption). Therefore, a blessing of believing in God and confessing His name (Romans 10:9-10) is redemption, which is also found only through the NC.

Redemption is granted to those who believe in God and repent.
Actual redemption has been granted only through Christ's blood, the New Covenant.
However, not all in the New Covenant actually repent and believe in God, and thus not all are redeemed that are member of the New Covenant. The blessing of the New Covenant is redemption, but not all in the New Covenant receive that blessing.

Maybe I can get this straight. The people in the New Covenant are not necessarily saved. But those who are saved are put in the New Covenant because of salvation, right? Or no? I think I'm in the same boat as Joelsdad (I think that's who said it), when he said "what's the point then of the NC?" If anyone, saved or unsaved, can be part of the New Covenant, and only the saved people receive the blessing of heaven thru the NC, then what is the advantage of an unsaved person being in the NC?

[Travis]

Originally Posted by Jesus Fish <><

"what's the point then of the NC?"

Well, what was the point of the Old Covenant? Circumcision didn't save anyone either. Being in the covenant community back then didn't save anyone, but when you believed you became a member. It's the same today only with different signs.

The advantage to being in the NC is the same as the old--your chances of becoming a believer are much higher if you are taught Biblical truth. Those who were born into other nations back in OT time often died without hearing about The One true God and having false gods served around them and taught to them. But those born in Israel were taught the truth of Jehovah. Similarly today, those who are born into unbelieving households are not taught the truth contained in Scripture, whereas those who are born to believing parents hear it from the time they are born. To be a covenant member is a great blessing because you will hear the truth and be much more likely to recieve it.

[+Donny]

Furtermore, a reprobate person in the NC will actually be exposed to additional judgment because he has rejected Christ and profaned his baptism and confession (Hebrews 10:28-31).

[Jesus Fish <><]

Originally Posted by Travis

Well, what was the point of the Old Covenant? Circumcision didn't save anyone either. Being in the covenant community back then didn't save anyone, but when you believed you became a member. It's the same today only with different signs.

The advantage to being in the NC is the same as the old--your chances of becoming a believer are much higher if you are taught Biblical truth. Those who were born into other nations back in OT time often died without hearing about The One true God and having false gods served around them and taught to them. But those born in Israel were taught the truth of Jehovah. Similarly today, those who are born into unbelieving households are not taught the truth contained in Scripture, whereas those who are born to believing parents hear it from the time they are born. To be a covenant member is a great blessing because you will hear the truth and be much more likely to recieve it.

Not that I don't agree with you about those being born to believing parents usually have a better opportunity to hear the gospel, but do you have any scriptural explanation of the point of the NC? And what of people who's parents aren't believers but aren't attending church faithfully, versus the person who attends church and bible study every week with their friend, yet their parents are not saved? Wouldn't their opportunity be greater? Or are you just talking in general?

(Donny)
Furtermore, a reprobate person in the NC will actually be exposed to additional judgment because he has rejected Christ and profaned his baptism and confession (Hebrews 10:28-31).

(<><)
Using the same scenario as above, woudln't the person who heard the gospel more be held more responsible and receive the greater judgement, regardless of inclusion in the NC?

[Chico]

Originally Posted by Travis

Well, what was the point of the Old Covenant? Circumcision didn't save anyone either. Being in the covenant community back then didn't save anyone, but when you believed you became a member. It's the same today only with different signs.

The advantage to being in the NC is the same as the old--your chances of becoming a believer are much higher if you are taught Biblical truth. Those who were born into other nations back in OT time often died without hearing about The One true God and having false gods served around them and taught to them. But those born in Israel were taught the truth of Jehovah. Similarly today, those who are born into unbelieving households are not taught the truth contained in Scripture, whereas those who are born to believing parents hear it from the time they are born. To be a covenant member is a great blessing because you will hear the truth and be much more likely to recieve it.

this is the best explanation yet. this makes complete sense to me. i still do not agree that baptizing infants enters them into the NC. i still believe that salvation enters us into the NC, a circumcision of the heart as Paul puts it. But i believe that this is a benefit to children with parents in the NC.

chris

[skilar]

Originally Posted by dancesk804

Jesus did command us to get baptised. However, if we receive salvation, we're saved- even without baptismal. It is simply a public declaration of our faith. The decision is in the hert though.

I agree with you about the decision being in the heart, but how do you explain this:

"In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water, and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also--not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a good conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ, who has gone into heaven and is at God's right hand--with angels, authorities and powers in submission to him." - 1 Peter 3:19b-22 NIV

????

[+Donny]

[quote]Not that I don't agree with you about those being born to believing parents usually have a better opportunity to hear the gospel, but do you have any scriptural explanation of the point of the NC? And what of people who's parents aren't believers but aren't attending church faithfully, versus the person who attends church and bible study every week with their friend, yet their parents are not saved? Wouldn't their opportunity be greater? Or are you just talking in general?

(Donny)
Furtermore, a reprobate person in the NC will actually be exposed to additional judgment because he has rejected Christ and profaned his baptism and confession (Hebrews 10:28-31).

(<><)
Using the same scenario as above, woudln't the person who heard the gospel more be held more responsible and receive the greater judgement, regardless of inclusion in the NC?[/quiote]

I think its possible. Common grace heeps judgment (Romans 12).

"In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water, and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also--not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a good conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ, who has gone into heaven and is at God's right hand--with angels, authorities and powers in submission to him." - 1 Peter 3:19b-22 NIV

Notice that he says it is not "the removal of dirt from the body". IOW, a physical cleansing doesn't save our souls. However, "a pledge of a good conscience toward God" says us "by the resurrection of Jesus Christ". Now, I'm sure someone could make the case that baptism is a pledge to God...