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Unread 03-11-2004, 11:43 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by supahfly23
Thanks for those points, they did help me out.
No problem. We're all here to grow, not just be right or argue.

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i totally agree with you. I don't think an ounce of credit or hype should go to Mel, or even the movie. We have all heard of the masses leaving the theater in tears, but I must say that this is not the doing of Mel. This movie cannot save someone, nor can Mel. The credit for someone getting saved as a result of experiencing this movie should be sent straight to God. Those who wept during the movie, including myself, did not weep because of this movie, though those images might have helped, but because of the working of the Holy Spirit within each of us. Because of that i do not credit this movie. I think starboard wake qoted the bible saying that God's word will not come back void. You make a valid point. I do think though, that this is somthing that God is useing to send his word out. maybe he isn't, but the fact that Mel Gibson made this movie doesn't mean that God still won't use it to reach thous who might not sit down and read a bible. We truly won't know what God thinks of this movie till we get there, and His opinion is all that really matters anyway
I think if we search the Scripture we can get a clear picture of what God thinks of things like this film.

And I mean this with all sincerity and no malice that I find it suspect that people need a not-wholly-accurate movie made by a person who is either not a believer or is not in proper fellowship to have the Cross become real to them.

People are leaving the theaters in tears...why? I would offer it's because this is good film-making. The scene with Mary flashing back to memories of Christ as a child wasn't in the Bible. Her comforting the stumbling Christ is a Roman Catholic tradition. It's not in the Bible. That was a real tearjerker of a scene, but it wasn't Biblical.

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Unread 03-13-2004, 07:55 PM   #62
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So how much is our faith going to stumble because we like a scene in which a mother has a flashback about her son that is not explicitly mentioned in the Bible? The Bible says that Jesus was Mary's son and that both of them were human beings. It's not too much to assume that Mary had flashbacks to nicer times when all of this was happening.
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Unread 03-13-2004, 09:47 PM   #63
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My first visit to these boards...

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Originally Posted by Sean
I AGREE!!!! JEFFREY NEEDS TO GET RESAVED!!!!
This is definitely not a message board where I am witnessing the body "building one another up in love." I won't be wasting any more time here.

You all might do better to spend more time reflecting in prayer than posting your opinions.
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Unread 03-14-2004, 03:38 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by Yojimbo
So how much is our faith going to stumble because we like a scene in which a mother has a flashback about her son that is not explicitly mentioned in the Bible? The Bible says that Jesus was Mary's son and that both of them were human beings. It's not too much to assume that Mary had flashbacks to nicer times when all of this was happening.
Sure, I agree that things like this may have happened. But since we don't have documented proof, it's an artistic liberty. It wasn't necessarily as bad as some, but they tied it to the Roman Catholic view that she was present when he bore the cross to Golgotha and even comforted him.

That scene didn't bother me as much as the fact that people tell me it was so emotional and moving, and I'm saying that's the reason. Mel's artistic liberties were meant to jerk tears.

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This is definitely not a message board where I am witnessing the body "building one another up in love." I won't be wasting any more time here.

You all might do better to spend more time reflecting in prayer than posting your opinions.
We're not "posting our opinions." At least I'm not. I'm posting my convictions and concerns about a movie that is depicting in visual form and with artistic liberties the Son of God, my Savior Who bore my sins. I have a very high standard.

In the past week, I've had three deep conversations where I was able to share Christ with a non-believer. Because of this film? This film was part of the impetus to our dialogue, but it was because of the Holy Spirit and God's providence that the discussions took place.

And a facet of <i>each</i> conversation was the non-believer pointing out or asking about clear unBiblical elements, and me having to explain them.

Am I thankful this movie exists? No, it's more like I am thankful that I was able to share the Gospel with a conversation about the successes and failings of this Roman Catholic cinematic event. But I am also thankful that I have been able to share the Gospel after discussing the Qur'an, child pornography, and the weather.

<i>Everything</i> is a springboard to sharing the Gospel.
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Unread 03-14-2004, 04:00 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lioninwinter
This is definitely not a message board where I am witnessing the body "building one another up in love." I won't be wasting any more time here.

You all might do better to spend more time reflecting in prayer than posting your opinions.
Judging a forum with over 1 million posts based one post or one thread isn't "building up one another in love." If you had problems with any of our posts you should have PM'd us in private about it.

I'm not trying to justify my behaviour, but I'm not really sure what was so terrible in this thread. If you believe my comment was inappropriate, I can certainly understand that. HOwever, I'm not sure if you took me seriously or realized it was in jest to a friend. If you had PM'd me about it, we could have talked through. However, my comment was might have been inappropriate because of its sarcasim being "unloving." But the person I was responding to was far worse than me.

I don't believe Jeff was at all in the wrong for voicing his concerns. Perhaps PM might have been a better venue because this isn't a forum for debate, but as he pointed out, when you come to a "devotional" forum, YOU EXPECT A BIBLICAL DEVOTIONAL. If Jeff has biblical problems with the Passion and its the subject of the devotional, raising issue most certainly is necessary.
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Unread 03-15-2004, 11:12 AM   #66
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Originally Posted by Sean
I don't believe Jeff was at all in the wrong for voicing his concerns. Perhaps PM might have been a better venue because this isn't a forum for debate, but as he pointed out, when you come to a "devotional" forum, YOU EXPECT A BIBLICAL DEVOTIONAL. If Jeff has biblical problems with the Passion and its the subject of the devotional, raising issue most certainly is necessary.
I agree completely with what Sean said here. I also agree almost 100% with Jeff. What Christ did for us , bore for us, was enough... there was no need to take all the liberties the movie did to add to it. A slow counting of each of the 39 lashes would have been accurate and more powerful than what was shown ( which was inaccurate ). What really bothered me , was the depiction of satan in the garden with Christ when He prayed to His Father. It was as if satan had some part in what Christ did, which he did NOT.... Christ freely died for us . I personally was disappointed in the movie.
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Unread 03-15-2004, 11:41 AM   #67
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Yes those liberties were needed to make the movie into a good movie. The movie did not have all the background info that the entire Bible provides, thus needed to have some filler material..as do all adaptations from one form of media to the other. To say the movie did not need to differ at all from the written account is like saying, "Well, the Bible never had any pictures of Jesus...why did the movie have to spoil everything by visually representing Him when the Bible did well enough with words alone?"
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Unread 03-15-2004, 01:27 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yojimbo
Yes those liberties were needed to make the movie into a good movie. The movie did not have all the background info that the entire Bible provides, thus needed to have some filler material..as do all adaptations from one form of media to the other. To say the movie did not need to differ at all from the written account is like saying, "Well, the Bible never had any pictures of Jesus...why did the movie have to spoil everything by visually representing Him when the Bible did well enough with words alone?"
I'm not sure what your point is. Yes, to be a good movie it needed all that filler matrial. However, since the film is about the life of Jesus making a good movie shouldn't be the end goal. Further, if its going to be used as a evangelical tool it needs to be dead on.
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Unread 03-25-2004, 01:41 PM   #69
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Battling Distractions

"Battling Distractions"
By: Zach Wood
Hebrews 12:1b (NIV)
...Let us throw off everything that hinders and the sin that so easily
entangles, and let us run with perseverance the race marked out for us.


I'm sharing this devotional with you as almost a premise of the sermon I will be preaching this coming Sunday morning. My sermon is on "Distractions" and that what seems to be filling many of our lives these days. This passage is the main selection of Scripture for the sermon. I find it rather sad how we have allowed so many distractions to enter our relationship with Christ. Our relationship with Christ cannot grow properly or fully if we are living with constant distractions. There are so many of these that it would take all day to list them. But we're aware of the distractions most of the time. However, sometimes, we aren't even aware that our spiritual lives are being tainted because of the things going on around us. Busyness is pretty much the norm and many of us run around "like a chicken with our head cut off". An expression we often chuckle about, but is sadly true and shouldn't be.

Granted, there are times in our lives when we just get busy. It's not that being busy is a bad thing, but when our focus is set off of Christ and living fully for Him, then we've got a problem. I don't know about you personally, but I know that I live daily with distractions. Now that I'm married and taking on a new role as head of a household and a supportive husband, there are more opportunities for distractions. Learning how to balance time in family life and ministry life is a constant challenge. What I have found is that my days goes so much better and are more focused when I've had my quiet time with the Lord to start my day off. More things become distractions when I haven't had that time with God to start my day. My wife notices when I don't have that quiet time and my attitude becomes sour. I think of all things I need to do, places I need to go and people I need to talk to/call.

To successfully run with perseverance, we need to constantly keep our time balance in check and make sure we are following Christ and spending time with Him in devotional time. Sin and things that hinder will surely make their way into our schedule without us consciously realizing what's happened. The busyness becomes a norm, but we start to feel the emptiness inside and realize that we haven't stopped to commune with God and connect with Him first.

As Christians, we will continue to battle distractions every single day. How can we battle them effectively? Start the day off right by immersing ourselves into His Word and communing with Him. I can't think of a better way to start the day. Can you?
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Unread 03-28-2004, 11:45 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yojimbo
Yes those liberties were needed to make the movie into a good movie.
That's a pretty hefty statement that's impossible to establish. I also think it's funny how many of those liberties that "were needed" just happened to coincide with Roman Catholic tradition.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yojimbo
The movie did not have all the background info that the entire Bible provides, thus needed to have some filler material..as do all adaptations from one form of media to the other.
I could just as easily use that as a premise for an argument that such movies ought not be made.
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Unread 04-01-2004, 07:01 PM   #71
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From 'Savior' To 'Beautiful Savior'

"From 'Savior' To 'Beautiful Savior'"
By: Zach Wood
Psalm 27:4
One thing I ask of the Lord, this is what I seek: that I may dwell in the house of the Lord all the days of my life, to gaze upon the beauty of the Lord and seek him in his temple.


A couple of weeks ago, I heard a man talk about falling in love with the author of life. As I sat there and looked at my own life and love for Christ, I thought to myself, "Do I consider Jesus just a 'Savior', or do I think of Him as my 'Beautiful Savior'"? That thought stuck with me and has to this day. I considered the way I often view Christ. When I spend time with Him and dwell in His presence, do I just think of Him as a person who died for me, or do I really gaze into His beauty and majesty?

Jesus Christ is not just our Savior! He's our BEAUTIFUL Savior! Several songs have come to mind recently when I think of Christ being beautiful. I've just thought of the words and how truly beautiful Jesus really is. We should always be seeing Jesus as our Beautiful Savior. I don't know how we could describe Him any other way except being beautiful. I believe that if we truly take the time to be still in His presence, gaze upon Him and seek His face, we will see and feel His beauty more. Just spending time with Him and soaking Him in, instead of just doing some devotions and getting on with our day.

I'm becoming convicted that in order to really see Jesus as my Beautiful Savior, I need to really be in His presence alone and spend quality time with Him. There's just something about being really close to Him and basking in His presence that helps me see His beauty more and more. I want to challenge us all to really see Jesus more than just Savior, but as our Beautiful Savior. It's not just a metaphor, it's a pure description of who He is.

I pray that Jesus goes from being 'Savior' to 'Beautiful Savior' in our hearts and lives.
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Unread 04-06-2004, 08:58 PM   #72
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The Challenge To Remain In His Love

"The Challenge To Remain In His Love"
By: Zach Wood
John 15:9
As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Now remain in my love.


Do you have some people in your life that are really hard to love? I know, it's probably a dumb question, but I thought I'd ask anyway. That's not a hard question to answer. Whether it's someone in your life lately or someone you have known for many years, we all have a person or select number of people we have a hard time loving. Why? Because we get hurt, ridiculed, made fun of, laughed at, scolded, judged.....etc. The list could go on and on. We have people in our lives whom are challenging to love. Maybe it's because our personalities clash. Or possibly that we said something wrong at one time to set off some tension and that feeling has never been resolved.

As I ponder how hard it is to show love to some people in our lives, I consider how Christ showed love to those around Him. Think of all the people who ridiculed Him and mocked Him. All the torture He went through and the hurtful words thrown at Him. However, He chose to respond and react in love. At times, He was silent. That speaks volumes in itself. There's still many things Jesus did that I have a hard time comprehending and figuring out. But I like to reflect much on how He treated people. He loved and showed compassion.

There are times when I don't want to love someone because of the hurt the person has inflicted upon me. Maybe there's a grudge I choose not to let go of. Whatever grievance in my heart, it hinders my ability to love that person in the Lord. I should have a love, no matter what has happened. I should be praying constantly that God would give me the strength and boldness to love unconditionally. However, I am human and I mess up. It's no excuse.....it's something I have to continuously work on and improve with. None of us are exempt from this problem of loving those who are hard to love. God loves them, so why do we say it's impossible? We don't remain in His love when we fire back hurtful and hateful words. I dealt a lot with this as a young child. When someone said something hateful or did something hurtful to me, I immediately gave myself the right to fight back with words or sometimes with a push or punch.

Even now, I have a hard time with words. I'm sure most of you do as well. It's not easy to respond in love when people intentionally hurt us or make it hard to love them. But God NEVER gave us the permission to fight back with words of hate or revenge. He clearly tells us we are to love. Yeah, it's hard sometimes! But that's the beauty of learning to love. It's a challenge. It's so challenging to be loving when we want to be hateful with our words or getting revenge for something done to us. However, God's words are clear. Jesus tells us to remain in His love. As we are loved by the Father more than we can ever comprehend, we are to love even when it's challenging to love.

The challenge to remain in His love is a journey we will all be on for a lifetime. We'll never be perfect dealing with it, but we can improve and seek God's strength and pray for a compassionate heart to deal with those who seem unlovable to us. I know I have a lot of work to do with this and I'm sure you do as well. Why don't we try the challenge and see how God's love can affect people around us who are difficult to love.
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Unread 04-06-2004, 09:08 PM   #73
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Amen. This has definitely opened my eyes for a problem that i've had with a person for a couple years now. Thanks.
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Unread 04-12-2004, 04:36 PM   #74
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While I agree that ‘The Passion' was not historically correct through and through, I think we're all getting sidetracked on a non-issue. People are getting upset and uptight about technicalities. Before you send an angry reply I’d like to clarify ‘technicalities’. Does it really matter where Mary was during all of this? When you consider what the story is really about, Jesus Christ’s passion for each of us, does it really matter that Mary was in every scene?
Does not the message of God’s love for you and me still shine through all the artistry?
The purpose of ‘the Passion’ is what will really make a difference in a non-believers life. What is the purpose of ‘the Passion’?

"It's about faith, hope, love and forgiveness. That's what this film is about. It's about Christ's sacrifice." – Mel Gibson

If that is what Gibson was trying to achieve, I’d say he did an outstanding job. I genuinely hope I’m not assuming too much when I say, I don’t know how anyone, especially a Christian, could leave that theatre not seeing and realizing Christ’s love and forgiveness for us.
‘The Passion’ is so much more than a movie about a man being beaten and murdered. It carries a message. It should and is being used as an evangelistic tool. The cross being flipped over, although untrue according to Starboard Wake, simply increases the feeling of “Did He really suffer all that for me? Why?” If the non-believer thinks that maybe, just maybe, Christ really did die for his sins then this movie was a success regardless of whether the nails went through His hands or wrists.
It’s disturbing to think that people, Christians even, are going to see ‘the Passion’ simply to pick out its flaws rather than to support one of the biggest Christian evangelistic events. Why sit there counting the number of times Jesus was whipped? (Which Starboard Wake thoughtfully pointed out was 78). Whether it was an “unhistorical” 78 times, or a more realistic 39 times, each one was for me and that carries much more meaning than facts or figures a person can dish out.

"This is what the Gospel says. Let's talk. Let's talk. People are asking questions about things that have been buried a long time."

Yes, they are. And while we sit here and argue about what is Mel Gibson’s interpretation and what is Biblical, there are people out there who have questions, questions you and I could be answering. So instead of debating the movie, let’s support the message it’s sending to millions of people.


All quotes were taken from an interview by Diane Sawyer on ABCNEWS' Primetime. http://abcnews.go.com/sections/Prime..._040216-1.html
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Unread 04-12-2004, 07:21 PM   #75
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I think we're all getting sidetracked on a non-issue. People are getting upset and uptight about technicalities.
The second commandment is not a technacality, and that has been my main complaint.

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When you consider what the story is really about, Jesus Christ’s passion for each of us, does it really matter that Mary was in every scene?
I'm assuming by the fact that you italicized the word "passion" that you have no earthly idea what it means. It means "suffering".
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