Thoughts on honesty

Dice · 06-14-2003, 01:08 AM

Hey guys, you may remember some of the things I have said about honesty in some relationship threads around here (nothing in more recent times that I know of) and well I've kept on considering the ways of honesty. As a worship leader I learn primarily in Spirit and observance, I just sort of absorb stuff from other people and things, then I am always contemplating things and judging them according to the word of God to make sure they are not of a flase spirit. Though it's really more of a natural process than intentional, but what I'm getting at is primarily through my pastor and a friend of mine I've unintentionally learned and had a lot instilled in me about honesty, and here is the fruit of it. An email I wrote to my friend, I hope you are blessed by it.

Quote:

Topic: Realizations

Hey dude,
Here they are, though it's all actually sort of just one big realization,
and it's all centered around true honesty. I had come to realize that most
people tend to view "truth" as facts, but truth is not merely facts, but
it is what all those facts mean and how they relate to and affect
everything. For us to live and speak in real truth, honesty is a vital
part of it, just as grace is as vital as judgement to the character of
God.

Now quite some time ago I had come to realize the importance of honesty
and communication in relationships, of not leaving out little details or
reasons for why you think or do something, and how this avoids so many
movie-like scenarios and misconceptions. And while this is vital to proper
relationships and takes a lot of trust not so much in the other person,
but in God as other people will fail you, and that is a way that love is a
sacrifice, there is something more.

Acts 17:25
nor is He served by human hands, as though He needed anything, since He
Himself gives to all people life and breath and all things

We see here that there is nothing we can truly give, or rather add to God.
For us to worship Him, we not only have to first receive from Him the
understanding to do so, not only the ability to do so, but every moment of
existence that we have to do so. We have so often got this idea that
everything should eb for God just because He is God and anything else is a
bonus, and if we are seeking anything for ourself as well then that is
selfish. But it is not selfish to *need* but it is selfish to want beyond
what the Lord will provide, or want at the expense of others.

Indeed we see that the fact we need is an essential part of our being, God
has put eternity in our heart (Ecc 3:11) and that is a void that will only
be filled by the fullness of Him when we are perfected in Him in heaven.
And not only us but all creation waits and groans for that day (Rom
8:22-23) and so it is not a shameful thing to be in need and to want what
we need, but in fact the greatest thing we can give to God is our total
need for the fullness of Him. But yet there is something more in
understanding this...

1 Corinthians 12
19 If they were all one member, where would the body be?
20 But now there are many members, but one body.
21 And the eye cannot say to the hand, "I have no need of you"; or again
the head to the feet, "I have no need of you."
22 On the contrary, it is much truer that the members of the body which
seem to be weaker are necessary;
23 and those members of the body which we deem less honorable, on these
we bestow more abundant honor, and our less presentable members become
much more presentable,
24 whereas our more presentable members have no need of it. But God has
so composed the body, giving more abundant honor to that member which
lacked,
25 so that there may be no division in the body, but that the members
may have the same care for one another.
26 And if one member suffers, all the members suffer with it; if one
member is honored, all the members rejoice with it.
27 Now you are Christ's body, and individually members of it.

We know that God has given Himself in life here as a man and death on a
cross, we udnerstand He has given His word, we understand He has given His
Spirit, and we need all of these to better seek and find Him as we are
waiting in expectation for that day of perfection. But how often while we
recognize our need of all these things, we deny our true need of the body
of Christ. We can often get arrogant attitudes, seeing life and others in
a way that says "What can I, Mr Wonderful offer to this person"

Now granted, it can often be in a true heart of service, but we need to
realize that we are in so much need of them as they are in need of us. We
need to realize that to much is given much is required (Luke 12:48) and so
likewise if we realize our purpose in Christ and how much is required of
us, there is SO MUCH that God has given us. Not only in the udnerstanding
to know that calling, but in His provision of people in our lives to bring
support to our every need to carry it out.

I've been coming to realize how much I am called to, and it might be
overwhelming, but I realize that He has given me you guys, Christ Church,
Encounter, Crosswinds, MCC/Hope Alliance and many more freinds around
town. I'm such a loser that I NEED every single person in my life for
whatever purpose God would place them in my life for. And if I want to
carry out the purpose to which I am called, I need to understand and take
hold of my need of them just as I would my need of the bible.

It's kind of funny, because a major turning point in realizing all this
was watching Fight Club. I saw Tyler Durden amazed people because he was
honest and did everything freely in that honesty, and he didn't just leave
them to wonder, but explained why he did everything, openly communicated
in full honesty. Now the difference is Tyler didnt have Jesus, and so it
all led to destruction, but when we all practice that same honesty in our
need of Christ and each other, than all that honesty only comes out love.

We see Jesus teaching us this in John 13, blowing people away by humbling
Himself to wash their feet, but then as He does it explaning the honest
truth as to why He does. And that is the love that will come of this free
and honest living, not just our crappy idea of love, which is really just
caring (a part of love). But patience and self-sacrifice and trust and
hope and all those other wonderful things about love, even rejoicing in
the truth. That truth not being mere facts, but being our honest need of
one another, and others need of us.

Ephesians 4
17 So this I say, and affirm together with the Lord, that you walk no
longer just as the Gentiles also walk, in the futility of their mind,
18 being darkened in their understanding, excluded from the life of God
because of the ignorance that is in them, because of the hardness of their
heart;
19 and they, having become callous, have given themselves over to
sensuality for the practice of every kind of impurity with greediness.
20 But you did not learn Christ in this way,
21 if indeed you have heard Him and have been taught in Him, just as
truth is in Jesus,
22 that, in reference to your former manner of life, you lay aside the
old self, which is being corrupted in accordance with the lusts of deceit,
23 and that you be renewed in the spirit of your mind,
24 and put on the new self, which in the likeness of God has been
created in righteousness and holiness of the truth.
25 Therefore, laying aside falsehood, SPEAK TRUTH EACH ONE of you WITH
HIS NEIGHBOR, for we are members of one another.

And you know, this results not only in a greater love, a greater reception
and giving to one another, but it really does bring freedom from many
struggles we have. I've seen it true in my practice of it the past few
weeks, and Cliff and I were discussing how interesting it is that when we
spend time hanging out with other Christians it is so much easier to live
life as we should, and our struggles are hardly even struggles anymore,
but why would this be?

1 John 1
6 If we say that we have fellowship with Him and yet walk in the
darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth;
7 but if we walk in the Light as He Himself is in the Light, we have
fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us
from all sin.

Galatians 5
13 For you were called to freedom, brethren; only do not turn your
freedom into an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one
another.
14 For the whole Law is fulfilled in one word, in the statement, "YOU
SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF."
15 But if you bite and devour one another, take care that you are not
consumed by one another.
16 But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not carry out the desire
of the flesh.

Ohhhh, I get it! This complete unity that comes by trusting Christ enough
to invest in one another through complete honesty is what we are called to
do. And our prideful, post-modern, individualistic, realativistic,
voyeuristic society of sin is completely and totally set against this
righteous way of living. But you know what else I have found? When we
realize this and really live and speak it others catch on, kinda like
Tyler Durden, but so very much more like Jesus.

So embrace the truth of humanity, embrace your need. It is the greatest
thing we can give to one another, the greatest thing we can receive from
one another, and together in knowing Christ in the head of this body (Eph
5:23) it is the greatest thing we can give to Him. Our complete and utter
reliance upon the fullness of Himself and every provision He gives to
bring us to that. Isn't that awesome? God is sooooo cool!

Romans 11
33 Oh, the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God!
How unsearchable are His judgments and unfathomable His ways!
34 For WHO HAS KNOWN THE MIND OF THE LORD, OR WHO BECAME HIS COUNSELOR?
35 Or WHO HAS FIRST GIVEN TO HIM THAT IT MIGHT BE PAID BACK TO HIM
AGAIN?
36 For from Him and through Him and to Him are all things. To Him be the
glory forever. Amen.

God bless dude,
Danno

And just to make sure there aren't any mosconceptions, honesty here is not simply how you really feel but is is the very truth of those feelings, what God has to say. It is not jsut the facts of truth but the active interaction and definition of everything according to those facts of truth (and thats a topic I have another article on if you'd like it)

-edit-
Oh, sorry, I didn't realize there was a different forum for general sharing like this.

Laura · 06-14-2003, 07:19 PM

That's good stuff. Thanks for posting that. I want to go watch Fight Club now.

Tup · 06-14-2003, 09:28 PM

Holy Monkeys thats alot to read... to bad i didnt read it.... My thoughts on honesty:

#1. You should be honest at all costs.... unless it involves cheating on a test...thats a little different... Passing gas in a room full of people and then blame it on someone and everyone else believes its them.......When your talking to girls and you just say stuff.... like your older than you are or something like that.... there are many exceptions to being honest in my world.

#2. Refer to number 1.

I'll read it someday.

idk_andy · 06-14-2003, 10:25 PM

WOW!!

Mr McB, I think you are on to something there! Can I copy that whole post and share it with some of my friends?

My comment on this subject is this: make sure you speak the truth in LOVE. I deeply wounded my ex-wife one day (before we got divorced) when she asked me what was the matter. I had seen an attractive woman earlier that day and some impure thoughts slipped through my mind. I was feeling guilty about those thoughts and that's what was bothering me. Rather than telling her that I was struggling with some thoughts I had had, I told her exactly what thoughts had passed through my head. BIG mistake. That day, a seed of bitterness was planted in her heart and hindered any healing that might have happened, as well as contributed to our break-up. She did not need to hear what those specific thoughts were. All she needed to know was that I was having a struggle with my purity and that I was doing what I needed to do the have the victory. Of course, it didn't help much that the counselor we were going to at the time insisted that the only reason that I'd say such things was because I wanted the marriage to fail. We quit going to see him, but the damage was done.

Dice · 06-14-2003, 11:37 PM

Yeah, it is important to remember in sharing personal truth that love is self-sacrificing, so we do go sort of go out on a limb and invest and trust in one another, but love is not self-dumping, we stretch one anothers hearts but don't go beyond what they can handle. God doesn't just reveal everything at once and nither should we, we need wisdom and discernment in our honesty and how we express it.

Not to say we hide things from one another, but as you illustrated there are better ways and there are worse ways to share. Of course even when we do feel we can trust one another with such things, we need to express the full truth of it, not just the problem but our displeasure with sinful things and weakness against it, looking in hope to the grace of God and support and love of the brethren to help us overcome it.

As for sharing all this with others, sure go ahead, I hold no ownership over truth. Just be responsible in your teaching of it, make sure it's not misunderstood or not understood fully (though there is only so much you can do at times).

Dice · 06-14-2003, 11:46 PM

Oh, a couple things to think on...

"Honesty is where spirit and truth combine" -me

"Half of wisdom is knowing what to speak, the other half is knowing when not to" -unknown

The second doesn't directly apply to the topic, but it's a good saying.

ChristinaE · 06-16-2003, 10:21 PM

Ok i have a question..I mean its honesty on some one else's behalf...I mean this person is prety old and i'm talking like in his 40's...but this man flirts with me alot and he is always wanting to hug me. He has a wife and 3 children..for one i'm only 15 now this guy used to go to my church but i still see him ever monday. He's had trouble with this in the past. My mom says just to tell him I do'nt like him hanging huging me and touching me..but I don't wanna hurt his feelings.
PLEASE HELP!!!

idk_andy · 06-20-2003, 05:43 PM

Be brutally honest.

If you don't want him huggin you, say so. It sounds like he's had an affair or something in the past? Is his wife around when he's hugging and touching you? From what you have said, it sounds like the guy is a predator, even if he doesn't actually do anything illegal, he's thinking about it. Don't let him touch you. Avoid him if possible, if you can't avoid him, stay as for away from him as possible.

Saints, pray for this young lady!

ChristinaE · 06-21-2003, 08:45 AM

His wife isn't around he usaly does it when no one else is around..which is the sick thing cause that proves to me that he is a preditor..its sick but I have taken advice from other people and stayed away from him I have been telling him that I don't want him to touch me or get near..so I think he's going to stay away now!

finly! thanks for your prayers..don't stop them I still need them.