Should a Christian be patriotic?

ReformedYokel · 05-25-2003, 01:00 PM

This morning in church our pastor spoke for a brief time about America and how awesome it is. The congregation pledged allegience to the flag before service began (then pledged to the Christian flag). It kind of annoyed me. I go to church to hear about God. Don't think I'm knocking Memorial Day or anything, but I don't see how it pertains to Christian life.

How patriotic/unpatriotic should a Christian be and WHY?

Yojimbo · 05-25-2003, 01:36 PM

I think the only thing wrong with being overly patriotic is that it unconsciously implies that Christianity is "America's religion"--i.e. American Christianity is the best. Otherwise, nothing wrong with loving your country. But pledging allegience to the flag in the church? Sounds suspect. How many congregations would be OK with singing the local college fight song on the day before a football bowl game?

Samwise · 05-25-2003, 07:22 PM

I think patriotism for your country has a lot to do with Christianity. I mean, firstly, this country was built on Christianity. Second, with Memorial Day in mind, the sacrifices people've made for this country is very similar to the sacrifice Christ made for us - innocents dying so others could live. We've been so blessed to have a free country to live in...I don't see why church and state cannot be interwoven. Despite all the garbage and perverted and underhandedness in our country, I am quite proud of it, and I love to see others being provided with freedom....and I think it's kinda how a Christian feels when given spiritual freedom by God. So yes, I think a Christian should be proud of America...we still stand for something.

*gets off pedestal.

*

Yojimbo · 05-25-2003, 08:30 PM

The people who are being honored for their sacrifice are not "innocent".

Samwise · 05-25-2003, 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Goodness
The people who are being honored for their sacrifice are not "innocent".

well I didn't mean innocent as in "never sinned" - but innocent, as in not having to go out and protect us. No one's truly innocent, obviously.

Awzmgd117 · 05-25-2003, 10:25 PM

and...

America wasn't exactly build on christian principles either.

don't get me wrong, i'm actually fairly patriotic seeing as how i was a military brat for so many years but...

it would be more accurate to say that America was build on a series of ideals some of which were taken from the Bible, but some from the enlightenment as well. now some of the founding fathers may have been christian but there not all so... Jefferson had cut out like half his Bible
:kcool:

barefooter · 05-25-2003, 10:32 PM

*prepares to be flamed*

Quote:

Originally posted by Samwise
I think patriotism for your country has a lot to do with Christianity. I mean, firstly, this country was built on Christianity.

I assume that you mean the U.S.A. (since we are talking Memorial Day), in which case I thought that it was built on Democracy.

Quote:

Second, with Memorial Day in mind, the sacrifices people've made for this country is very similar to the sacrifice Christ made for us - innocents dying so others could live.

I fail to see the connection. Comparing veterens to Christ? *ugh*

Quote:

We've been so blessed to have a free country to live in...I don't see why church and state cannot be interwoven.

Unless you want to deal with full-fledged theonomy, church and state can't be interwoven. Faith and politics are inseperable, yes, but the institutions of church and state need to be seperate, IMO.

Quote:

Despite all the garbage and perverted and underhandedness in our country, I am quite proud of it, and I love to see others being provided with freedom....and I think it's kinda how a Christian feels when given spiritual freedom by God.

I see the difference in us right here. I'm just not patriotic...and I just can't pull the comparison in my mind, comparing God's gift to America's nation-building.

Quote:

So yes, I think a Christian should be proud of America...we still stand for something.

I guess that I'm just a bad person.

I'm glad to live here, yes, but I just can't make myself proud of that fact. It's something that I accept.

--I too have a real problem with patriotic services. My church makes a major deal out of Independence Day, basically dedicating the service to the U.S.A. And it bugs me. Patriotic songs are fine, but don't expect me to sing them, and please don't replace a church service with the singing of the four national anthems (the official plus the three standbys).

A Christian should submit to their government. Patriotism/Nationalistic ferver is not called for in the Bible.

Samwise · 05-25-2003, 10:32 PM

people came to America to gain religious freedom. Hence, it was founded on Christianity. This was long before Jefferson.

barefooter · 05-25-2003, 10:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Samwise
people came to America to gain religious freedom. Hence, it was founded on Christianity. This was long before Jefferson.

The Puritans didn't come for religious freedom, they came to escape persicution. At first glance, that looks like the same thing, but it isn't. Not by a long shot. The Puritans ran to America because the king of England was a big meanie, but once here they did not allow religious freedom--oh no. They allowed Puritanism. Period.

And the Puritans had a basic theocracy going on, so their government was hardly the basis for what was to become the U.S.

HisFreshClay · 05-25-2003, 10:40 PM

Quote:

A Christian should submit to their government. Patriotism/Nationalistic ferver is not called for in the Bible.

AMEN!!!!! :kgrin:

ok, i dunno if im patriotic or not, or if that's wrong or not. but i don't pledge allegiance to the flag (now, just wait til my hugely-patriotic step-dad sees me NOT pledging the flag...ahhh....im toast), because allegiance means "honor" "adoration" and the like.

i love the people in my country. i dont like society's values at the present time but we have an awesome government that has stayed strong, cool leaders from what i can tell, and some pretty cool people of the united states.

but i will show the people in my country my lvoe for them by my service, my prayers and my LOVE (that is expressed in truth and action, not word or tongue 1 john 3:18). i am not going to give a flag my honor and adoration. when you look up adoration, "worship" is a homonym. not going to worship, or, to make it less extreme, not going to give my praise to a mere flag which is only a symbol of what our forefathers did.

our forefathers are dead now (ok did that sound harsh?) but what they did is still alive. so i will support my country in ways that are right and turn when they do what is wrong (abe lincoln quote sort of) and love them and continnue to serve God and my country....just not thru a poetic expression to a piece of cloth.

so am i patriotic? :ktongue:

EDIT: submission to the gov't, errr, obedience is another way i will be a cool american :-)

Samwise · 05-25-2003, 10:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by barefooter
The Puritans didn't come for religious freedom, they came to escape persicution. At first glance, that looks like the same thing, but it isn't. Not by a long shot. The Puritans ran to America because the king of England was a big meanie, but once here they did not allow religious freedom--oh no. They allowed Puritanism. Period.

And the Puritans had a basic theocracy going on, so their government was hardly the basis for what was to become the U.S.

yes, the king as being mean - with their beliefs...they could not practice their Christianity like they wanted...hence, they came to America, to flee from that.

barefooter · 05-25-2003, 11:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Samwise
yes, the king as being mean - with their beliefs...they could not practice their Christianity like they wanted...hence, they came to America, to flee from that.

When will you silly humans realize that I'm not going to concede a point? :ktongue:

Yojimbo · 05-25-2003, 11:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Samwise
yes, the king as being mean - with their beliefs...they could not practice their Christianity like they wanted...hence, they came to America, to flee from that.

Well, from the king's standpoint, you had a bunch of people fleeing the organized church to start their own heretical sect of religion. That makes more sense, actually, considering the number of different Christian sects that America has spawned.

ThePlaidRanger · 05-25-2003, 11:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Samwise
yes, the king as being mean - with their beliefs...they could not practice their Christianity like they wanted...hence, they came to America, to flee from that.

But they came to practice Puritanism. They did not come to have the freedom to practice whatever they chose, nor did they grant that to others. They came simply to practice Puritanism.

Samwise · 05-25-2003, 11:59 PM

but what you people don't get is, it was CHRISTIANITY

lol