[MisterAgreeable]

Originally posted by Bogieman
You are making this into something it is not. No compexity here. That site=blatent anti-christian propoganda
me= very skeptical of source, needed to look elsewhere for verification.

Yes, it is simple.

You accused them of lying. You were wrong. You justify your false accusation because you don't like their agenda.

If you "needed to look elsewhere for verification," why didn't you "look elsewhere for verification" before you call the quotes into question? Why not verify your claims of falsehood before you make them?

Travis cannot post a valid quote, offerening a reference because you don't his reference.

Yet you claim that you are perfectly justified in making a false claim, all the while offering no evidence whatsoever?

[Yojimbo]

OK OK, I think we all get the point: "if your mom says she loves you, get another opinion." No need to fly off on a tangent here.


BTW, I would just also like to point out that because something is repeated on many different websites does not mean it is true. For example, I can't count the number of pro-war sites that say Iraq used SCUDs in the latest war, all because of one initial report by CNN. Rumors and lies spread like wildfire on the internet. It's best to get at least a book source before saying something is for sure.

[MisterAgreeable]

I've been told that I've been too harsh here, so let me apologize.

Boogieman, I don't know your motivaztions and clearly am in no position to say anything about your character. (And certainly I hope I haven't. I don't think I did.)

In that we don't trust much of the information that we find on the internet, I think you and I can agree wholeheartedly.

So perhaps my initial objections could have been more diplomatically stated thusly:
I don't know Travis personally but I don't find him to be easily deceived. I would assume that before he credits a source in a message bearing his signature, he has checked the validity.

My hope in civil conversation is that we will extend one another similar courtesy, and call issues to question after we have excercised due dilligence in attmpting to verify them.

[Benny Hicks]

I think that it is interesting how Americans really like to harp on the positive attributes of America's history such as religious freedom and democracy, while they tend to ignore the glaring examples of America's splurges of inhumanity. For example...how did America grow so large? Did they buy the land, or perhaps purchase it? Well, technically yes, a large portion of the midwest was purchased from Napoleon by the Lousiana Purchase, but did the French actually own that land by any right? No, native Americans owned it. All of America was inhabited by stealing land from pre-existing peoples. America was formed larged because of the near extermination of indeginous peoples (i.e. the Oregon Trail, etc.). Not exactly a great example of the virtuous American government.

And then there's the whole slavery issue...I don't think it's even necessary to go any further. And then...look at abortion. The U.S. government is responsible for probably the largest number of killings of innocent humans ever. I say that knowing how many were murdered by Stalin and Hitler. America is certainly not as bad as it could be, but I don't take anywhere near as much pride in it as most people do. I am thankful to be living here, and am grateful for the philosophies which contributed to the formulation of the political system which rules the US and the drawing up of the Constitution and its amendements, but I fear that this country is drastically sliding into moral and religious obscurity.

Just my thoughts.

Ben

[Yojimbo]

"Sliding into moral and religious obscurity"? Didn't slavery and the extermination of the American Indians happen a couple of centuries ago?

[Benny Hicks]

[Goodness] Didn't slavery and the extermination of the American Indians happen a couple of centuries ago?
[Me] Those were examples of government actions, whereas that comment was directed primarily to American society in general.

Ben

[Yojimbo]

Originally posted by gruveguy
[Goodness] Didn't slavery and the extermination of the American Indians happen a couple of centuries ago?
[Me] Those were examples of government actions, whereas that comment was directed primarily to American society in general.

Ben

I don't think we're that bad of a country. How many other modern (or developing) nations even have a strong pro-life movement? Or an abstinence movement? We're way less decadent than Europe. And many countries in Asia, as far as I can tell.

[Benny Hicks]

You're correct, which is why I stated that this country is now slipping into moral and religious obscurity, not that they were already in the depths of it. Morally, absolute truths of morality are becoming more and more obscure with the rise of relativism. Religiously, doctrine in the church is rapidly being replaced with the love of universalism and the acceptance of syncretic beliefs.

Ben

[Awzmgd117]

gruveguy

yes Ameria is not a perfect nation, however your dealing with 2 separate topics, governmental injustices, and moral decline of the citezenary, which are you more focused on here??

the Jefferson issue; i can't verify the quotes but i would say the fact that he was a deist and had his own bible of sorts (though i was under teh impression he didn't add anythign just cut out what he didn't like) are pretty true, i've been told the same thing at every school i've ever been to both private adn public and college

next
I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible with liberty and justice for all.

however, i'm devoted to God above all of that, does the fact that people will sit through a worship service staring into space adn then when a patriotic song is played they get up and cheer bother me, yes, but not because there patriotic but because God has given them more to cheer about than this country ever could and yet they put America first by there actions, what bothers me is not there patriotism, but there lack apparent lack of passion for God (not to say that they all are this way)
:kcool: