[rainoflove]

Originally Posted by Lightknight

Does it ever get lonely?

ha ha. Yes, I guess it does However, I was surprised to find out that the 'church grouping' (for want of a better word) that I go to (New Covenant Ministries International - NCMI) does have a few calvinists on its trans-local apostolic team... can't remember exactly who though. Whats interesting is that this hasn't stopped or hindered the moving forward of the NCMI team or churches... I have struggled to find actual calvinistic pentecostal churches though! I'm in the process of moving churches, and still want to discuss it with the pastor there. Because alot of scriptures and teaching CAN be taken both ways, I've never really found it incredibly difficult to co-exist - we should be working our our own salvation anyway - but its always nice for me to know the views of the pastor.

[Mrstickball]

Ok.....You might not believe me but........

I found a church (that puts its messages on radio), that is Calvinist, Oneness, and KJV-only, or atleast near the KJV threshold. Pretty crazy. Probally the only one to be that colorful medley of theological viewpoints.......Its in Columbus Ohio.

[nbleo04]

im pencastal and what i was told is that we belive in intial evidance of babtism of the holy spirit

[Lightknight]

Originally Posted by nbleo04

im pencastal and what i was told is that we belive in intial evidance of babtism of the holy spirit

You mean that your particular subdenomination of the Pentecostal denominations believes that tongues is a necessary sign that "saved" people have to manifest?

What group are you part of? My denomination (IPHC) believes no such thing.

[nbleo04]

Originally Posted by Lightknight

You mean that your particular subdenomination of the Pentecostal denominations believes that tongues is a necessary sign that "saved" people have to manifest?

What group are you part of? My denomination (IPHC) believes no such thing.

no not at all just because you can speak in tounges doesnt mean you will it all depends on you its a promised gift that God wont take awys its all on you to except it there also the gift of tounges which is a whole other story

[LyssaJane]

So not quite sure if I really want to post here cause things are pretty heated!! Wait a second, when have I ever shied away from a good theological discussion??? Anyhow, I am a pentecostal, have been my whole life. I've also gone to several different branches of pentecostal churches. My current home church is Foursquare and some of my previous home churches have been Assemblies of God. I've also been to a Church of God in Christ, and an Apostolic Truth Church. So, I do have a variety of experiences to pull from here. First of all, the main thing that "defines" a pentecostal is that we believe in the manifested gifts of the holy spirit i.e. speaking toungues, prophesy, healing by laying on of hands, and so forth. Personally, I CANNOT agree with the Apostolic docterine. I had some friends in jr. high that went to an apostolic church (I attended a couple of times and participated in some of their youth activities). On of my friends was really scared to die because she could not speak in tongues. According to their particular church (I THINK this is true for most apostolic churchs, but I don't know for sure) in order to go to heaven you had to have the "three keys to salvation" which are, accepting Christ as savior, being baptised in the name of JESUS, and speaking in tongues. That is not biblical. Romans 10:9 states , "That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved." It does not say if you believe with your hear, confess with your mouth, get baptised in water, and speak in tongues you will be saved. One pastor of an apostolic church told me that my baptism was not valid because my pastor said, "I baptise you in the name of the father, the son, and holy spirit," instead of "I baptise you in the name of Jesus." My theory on this is that Jesus is the name of the Son, not the name of all three. Anyhow, those are my only problems with Apostolics, everything else, such as girls always wearing skirts, is just minor, who cares, details. I personally wear pants and love it and don't feel that I am wrong in any way. But if some other girl felt that it was wrong for her to wear pants or to cut her hair, then I'd tell her not to.
Not all pentecostals are wild and crazy on Sunday mornings. If you come to my church you wont hear anyone randomly speaking in tongues or yelling out anything durring service. Now, some churches do this and that's okay. Back home I would sometimes attend the Sunday night service at the Church of God in Christ and I loved it!! They were so energetic!! It was really cool. I think really it's all a matter of personal preference when it comes to those things. Such as hymns over modern worship. If you worship God best while singing hymns, sing hymns. If you worship God best when it's done with drums and guitars and clapping, do so!!!!! Romans 14:19-21 (New International Version)
"19Let us therefore make every effort to do what leads to peace and to mutual edification. 20Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All food is clean, but it is wrong for a man to eat anything that causes someone else to stumble. 21It is better not to eat meat or drink wine or to do anything else that will cause your brother to fall."
What I get from this is that it's about personal conviction. If I were around someone who did not believe in speaking in tongues and my doing so could cause them to stumble in their walk with God, I wouldn't do it. Um, long post, slightly of topic, but there's what I think. Blessings to all!!!!!!!!!!!

[drjekyll2003]

Originally Posted by LyssaJane

So not quite sure if I really want to post here cause things are pretty heated!! Wait a second, when have I ever shied away from a good theological discussion??? Anyhow, I am a pentecostal, have been my whole life. I've also gone to several different branches of pentecostal churches. My current home church is Foursquare and some of my previous home churches have been Assemblies of God. I've also been to a Church of God in Christ, and an Apostolic Truth Church. So, I do have a variety of experiences to pull from here. First of all, the main thing that "defines" a pentecostal is that we believe in the manifested gifts of the holy spirit i.e. speaking toungues, prophesy, healing by laying on of hands, and so forth. Personally, I CANNOT agree with the Apostolic docterine. I had some friends in jr. high that went to an apostolic church (I attended a couple of times and participated in some of their youth activities). On of my friends was really scared to die because she could not speak in tongues. According to their particular church (I THINK this is true for most apostolic churchs, but I don't know for sure) in order to go to heaven you had to have the "three keys to salvation" which are, accepting Christ as savior, being baptised in the name of JESUS, and speaking in tongues. That is not biblical. Romans 10:9 states , "That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved." It does not say if you believe with your hear, confess with your mouth, get baptised in water, and speak in tongues you will be saved. One pastor of an apostolic church told me that my baptism was not valid because my pastor said, "I baptise you in the name of the father, the son, and holy spirit," instead of "I baptise you in the name of Jesus." My theory on this is that Jesus is the name of the Son, not the name of all three. Anyhow, those are my only problems with Apostolics, everything else, such as girls always wearing skirts, is just minor, who cares, details. I personally wear pants and love it and don't feel that I am wrong in any way. But if some other girl felt that it was wrong for her to wear pants or to cut her hair, then I'd tell her not to.
Not all pentecostals are wild and crazy on Sunday mornings. If you come to my church you wont hear anyone randomly speaking in tongues or yelling out anything durring service. Now, some churches do this and that's okay. Back home I would sometimes attend the Sunday night service at the Church of God in Christ and I loved it!! They were so energetic!! It was really cool. I think really it's all a matter of personal preference when it comes to those things. Such as hymns over modern worship. If you worship God best while singing hymns, sing hymns. If you worship God best when it's done with drums and guitars and clapping, do so!!!!! Romans 14:19-21 (New International Version)
"19Let us therefore make every effort to do what leads to peace and to mutual edification. 20Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All food is clean, but it is wrong for a man to eat anything that causes someone else to stumble. 21It is better not to eat meat or drink wine or to do anything else that will cause your brother to fall."
What I get from this is that it's about personal conviction. If I were around someone who did not believe in speaking in tongues and my doing so could cause them to stumble in their walk with God, I wouldn't do it. Um, long post, slightly of topic, but there's what I think. Blessings to all!!!!!!!!!!!

now there's someone thinking right!

[Lightknight]

Originally Posted by nbleo04

no not at all just because you can speak in tounges doesnt mean you will it all depends on you its a promised gift that God wont take awys its all on you to except it there also the gift of tounges which is a whole other story

Ok, just so that you know, your post is extremely hard to understand. I hope this isn't offensive, but is English your first language? (just curious, I like meeting people who speak other languages)

Let me try to interpret it in the way I see it.

"No, not at all; Just because you can speak in tongues doesn't mean that you will. It all depends on you. It's a promised gift that God won't tke away. It's all on you to accept it. There is also the gift of tongues which is a whole other story."

Your lack of any punctuation (except the part where you capitalized "God") is what is making it hard.

Tongues itself is not a promised Gift of God. It is A gift. Just like prophecy is A gift. Paul says that not all have that gift. Perhaps you'd like to clarify what is meant by "initial evidence"?

An no, the gift of tongues isn't an entirely different thing.
Speaking in tongues is to the gift of tongues, as Prophecying is to the gift of Prophecy.

[Grasshopper359]

Originally Posted by bulldoghair

so, do u think there could not be a "pentecostal calvinist"?

I have a hard time seeing it, since one of the fundamental tennets of Pentecostal (and most evangelical denominations) faith is that man makes a choice for Christ of his own volition, and this contradicts the predestinationist teachings of Calvinism. Simply put, Pentecostals believe that we chose to follow Christ, while Calvinism teaches that we were predestined to do so.

[Nigh]

Originally Posted by drjekyll2003

now there's someone thinking right!

Originally Posted by LightKnight

An no, the gift of tongues isn't an entirely different thing.
Speaking in tongues is to the gift of tongues, as Prophecying is to the gift of Prophecy.

I think she may be reffering to "prayer language" vs. "the tongues of Pentacost Sunday" (with the flame on the head and all that jazz).

Originally Posted by LightKnight

An no, the gift of tongues isn't an entirely different thing.

Let me try to interpret it in the way I see it.
And no, the gift of toungues isn't an entrely different...

LOL. I couldn't resist! I am weak.

I love you, and God bless you all. ,
Nigh

[Oscarr]

Originally Posted by b8matt

listen you gave a great arguement, but you missed a lot of the facts. a lot of the stuff you have is not biblical. (i'm not going to quote any of these cause i hope that being such a good christian that you do have a bible around)


see there is no trinity. look it up in the council of Nicea in 325 ad. the roman catholic church developed the apostles creed and in general changed the form of baptism.

i
one last thing
Acts 4:12 "Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we shall be saved."

I think that the debate between Oneness and Trinitarian is totally irrelevant in a thread started by a sincere seeker wanting to know more about the Pentecostal church.

All it achieves is that you present Pentecostals as being divided and argumentative. And this is a slander against the good and sincere Pentecostals who are doing their best to serve God.

As for me, I don't give a rat's backside about whether people should get baptised in the Name of Jesus or in the Name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. It is not the ritual, it is the motivation and spirit in which it is done. Regardless of the words said over you, when you are baptised you are baptised into the Body of Christ.

For God's sake! Becky is a Baptist!!! She is not considering any change of church. From what I know, Baptists are trinitarian. Don't you dare attack her, just because you believe something different!!!

So, go your way and do what you like, and God bless you. But for goodness sake, allow the girl to get her questions answered without a whole lot of stupid and useless mumbo jumbo!

[guitarguy]

Originally Posted by Oscarr

I think that the debate between Oneness and Trinitarian is totally irrelevant in a thread started by a sincere seeker wanting to know more about the Pentecostal church.

All it achieves is that you present Pentecostals as being divided and argumentative. And this is a slander against the good and sincere Pentecostals who are doing their best to serve God.

As for me, I don't give a rat's backside about whether people should get baptised in the Name of Jesus or in the Name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. It is not the ritual, it is the motivation and spirit in which it is done. Regardless of the words said over you, when you are baptised you are baptised into the Body of Christ.

For God's sake! Becky is a Baptist!!! She is not considering any change of church. From what I know, Baptists are trinitarian. Don't you dare attack her, just because you believe something different!!!

So, go your way and do what you like, and God bless you. But for goodness sake, allow the girl to get her questions answered without a whole lot of stupid and useless mumbo jumbo!

Wow

[patrick1]

Originally Posted by PunkRawkGuy

What's the deal with "guy's must wear pants, no shorts" and "women must wear dresses, can't wear makeup, and can't shave their legs"? We've got a lot of that going around where I live. What's the scriptural justification of it?

Will

now my church a Upc church; the girls at my church at my church shave their legs, thats not really a rule, and that would be sick

[patrick1]

Originally Posted by ICTHUS

If you deny the Trinity, you might as well be an atheist, imho.

that is the dumbest thing i have ever heard of, icthus i would like to hear your refrences for this, b/c trinity isnt in the bible to my learning,

[Lightknight]

Originally Posted by Nigh

I think she may be reffering to "prayer language" vs. "the tongues of Pentacost Sunday" (with the flame on the head and all that jazz).

This does not create two different gifts. This shows multiple uses for the same gifting. There IS a difference.

Let me try to interpret it in the way I see it.
And no, the gift of toungues isn't an entrely different...

LOL. I couldn't resist! I am weak.

I love you, and God bless you all. ,
Nigh

Entirely has an I in it.