[PianoMan]

Hey! It seems that for some reason, I have not been getting any notices of updates here via e-mail. My loss!

Oh, I HEARTILY agree on the Calvinism vs. Arminianism thing, they argue it WAY too much over there. It also seems to me that they are spending more time arguing about God than growing in God. Not a good thing.

[Amanda]

Hey...

When someone first becomes a Calvinist, it's usually not safe to let them out in public for a couple of months. They're adamant about trying to convert everyone to their position. (I would know, this has happened to me. ) Some of our brothers around here aren't intentionally trying to be all freaky about Calvinism. I think they're just overzealous. (If any other Calvinists are reading this, I mean no offense--nothing necessarily wrong with being overzealous!)

Anyway, I tend to agree about the humility deal. Scripture does say to defend the hope you have with gentleness and respect. However, I do disagree that the Calvinist/Arminian debate should be banned. Why? 1) It's a learning experience for everyone, whether you agree with it or not. 2) Dadgum it, it's fun. It is for me, anyway. 3) Theology would have about 1/5 of the threads that it does if you couldn't do that. 4) Travis would come eat you. (Just kidding, Trav.)

[psalm63adam]

Originally posted by Manders
When someone first becomes a Calvinist, it's usually not safe to let them out in public for a couple of months. They're adamant about trying to convert everyone to their position. (I would know, this has happened to me. ) Some of our brothers around here aren't intentionally trying to be all freaky about Calvinism. I think they're just overzealous. (If any other Calvinists are reading this, I mean no offense--nothing necessarily wrong with being overzealous!)

If the zealousness and passion of a new Calvinist flows over in the other parts of his/her Christian life, then I'm all for it. I know what you mean. I had a good friend who became a Calvinist, and out of the blue he sent me a sixteen page handwritten letter defending his points and calling me an apostate for not believing what he believed. So that may be some background on why I have a hard time with the endless debating of Calvinism/Arminianism.

Anyway, I tend to agree about the humility deal. Scripture does say to defend the hope you have with gentleness and respect. However, I do disagree that the Calvinist/Arminian debate should be banned. Why? 1) It's a learning experience for everyone, whether you agree with it or not. 2) Dadgum it, it's fun. It is for me, anyway. 3) Theology would have about 1/5 of the threads that it does if you couldn't do that. 4) Travis would come eat you. (Just kidding, Trav.)

Well, maybe not banned, per se, but at least more civilized.
And I respect Travis' quick defenses of Calvinism. I think he may rub people the wrong way with his responses, but eventually you get to know his "nuances" (and I mean that in a good way).

[guitarplayer4jc]

Originally posted by Manders
4) Travis would come eat you.

Well, I think we should let it stay for the reason alone.

[psalm63adam]

Originally posted by guitarplayer4jc
Well, I think we should let it stay for the reason alone.

Well, maybe Travis can post a picture of his mouth and teeth here. Then we can make the decision.

[psalm63adam]

RANT - week of 3/9/03

I once almost lost a friendship over creamed corn.

No, really.

I had a roommate in college Let's call him...Matt. The names have not been changed for protection. (I always laugh when I read stories and the names have been changed. As if we're going to know who the writer is talking about. "Oh, yeah, Mary. Yeah, that's right, Mary was a tramp who cheated on her boyfriend and tested positive for HIV." Do you know how many Marys there are in the world? Anyways...)

Matt and I were in the kitchen - he was making his chicken fried rice, I believe, and I was about ready to make my obligatory mac and cheese (my college diet), when Matt pulled out a can of creamed corn from the pantry. Here's the conversation that followed:

Me: "Creamed corn, ugh."

Matt: "What's wrong with creamed corn?"

Me: "Well, personally, I don't like to eat something that looks like I already ate it, if you know what I mean."

Matt: "No, I don't know what you mean. You're an idiot. Just because something doesn't look right to you, doesn't mean it's inedible. That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard."

Me: "Right!" (in Monty Python English, where I then pull out my sword and lop off his arm in Black Knight style)

Okay, that last part was made up. But we did almost come to blows. And we didn't talk to each other for three weeks after the incident.

Here's the kicker: it wasn't really about the creamed corn. This was an argument waiting to happen because of several incidents piled on top of each other that finally overflowed over in anger and rage.

There was the incident two weeks before, where Matt asked to borrow my car, which I agreed to let him do so on the one condition that he brought it back by 7 p.m., as I had a date with a rather beautiful blond I had been getting the nerve up to ask for three months - I asked, she said yes. 6:30 p.m. rolled by, and I was nervous. 6:50 came and I was more than nervous, I was angry. At 7:15 I canceled my date and roamed our apartment looking for sharp instruments to impale my roommate with. By 8:30, I had the look of a disgruntled postal worker. Finally, I walked the 2 miles to go to the college I was attending (I was obviously an off-campus student), found my car and took it back to my apartment. Matt called and said, "Hey dude, your car was stolen, I think."

Then there were other less major incidents, including times when I made him upset and angry.

Here's the point of my rant: If we would have dealt with each problem and misunderstanding as they happened, we would have never almost killed each other over "The Creamed Corn Incident." But that's the world for you, isn't it?

We will do anything as humanly possible to avoid conflict. We would rather give someone "the silent treatment", or talk about the problem to someone else, hoping that somehow the person who we have a conflict will hear through the grapevine and will fall at our feet in repentance and cries for mercy. But it usually just makes the other person angry because they don't know why we are treating them that way.

Barbara Pachter, in her book "The Power of Positive Confrontation", says that there are 12 kinds of behaviors that drive us nuts:

1. Space Spongers. These are people who play their music too loud, leave messes for others to clean up, neighbors who let dogs in our yard, or co-workers who don't respect our property.

2. Telephone Traitors. When you deal with this person, you might have complaints like these: "I have to do all the calling." "She never calls me back." "He only calls when he wants something."

3. Bad Borrowers. They return your car with no gas (or ahem, not in time for a date), CDs with scratches, and money they borrow never gets paid back.

4. Constant Complainers. Everyone knows one - the person who always had a problem or gripe that never gets resolved.

5. Interloping Interrupters. People don't like to be interrupted or not to be given an opportunity to join equally in a conversation.

6. Callous Commenters. Among other things, this can be the neighbor who makes nasty comments or the person telling racist or sexist jokes. You don't like what this person says.

7. Work Welchers. Some people just don't do their fair share whether at home, work, or on the volunteer committee.

8. Favoritism Frustration. "What about me?" Your boss gives his pals the best projects or your mother-in-law gives better presents to her daughter's kids.

9. Holiday Hogs. Your spouse always wants to spend the holidays with his or her family. One of you wants to go to Hawaii for vacation; the other wants to hike the Appalachian trail.

10. Request Refusers. You ask your spouse to be on time for dinner. Your co-worker knows you need the report by 2 p.m., but doesn't deliver; your client will not give the tax information you've asked for. These are people who say they will grant your request by don't.

11. Atrocious Askers. You're asked to do something by your friend, boss, or loved one that you don't want to do or don't agree with.

12. Interloping Loved Ones. Some people want to tell you what they think - even if you don't want to hear it. (my grandmother comes to mind.)

Who hasn't had to deal with these kind of people. Shoot, I'm a minister - I guarantee you that I deal with all twelve on a weekly basis. What do we do in these situations? How do we make sure that these conflicts don't become "creamed corn incidents?"

The best advice I've ever been given on conflict resolution didn't come in a class or from a book. Rather, it came from the greatest teacher that ever lived (who also happens to be our Savior):

"Therefore, if you are offering your gift at the altar and there remember that your brother has something against you, leave your gift there in front of the altar. First go and be reconciled to your brother; then come and offer your gift."

"If your brother sins against you, go and show him his fault, just between the two of you. If he listens to you, you have won your brother over. But if he will not listen, take one or two others along, so that every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses. If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector."

(Wouldn't that be great? "I no longer consider you my friend for right now - right now, you are a pagan to me." Of course if we follow Jesus' steps above, no conflict would ever come to that.)

Imagine what would happen with all of our conflicts and our broken relationships if we followed the words of Jesus. Imagine if we were honest with people with how we felt immediately in a situation, rather than harboring resentment towards those people after not dealing with the problems over and over again.

And imagine the numbers of creamed corn cans that would be saved. Of course it would still look like it's already been thrown up - and if you have a problem with that, will you let me know now?

Otherwise, I may be throwing the can at you later.

[WooTang]

Originally posted by Manders
Hey...

When someone first becomes a Calvinist, it's usually not safe to let them out in public for a couple of months.

This is actually known as the Calvinist Box. It's where you lock a new Calvinist in a box until they calm down, and get adjusted to the implications of Calvinism on the rest of their theology. I went through it too!

But on that same note parkway, it's impossible to make an accurate assessment of someone's overall character by their posts in one forum. I agree that it should be done with humility and respect, and I appreciate the dialogue that we had on this subject. And I would gladly serve the Lord alongside you any day of the week.

Like most things, the Theology forum has a fairly moderate spectrum. You rarely have people who hold to exclusive extremes last very long. It sometimes has a mind of its own, but the mods and admin. are very good about keeping things relatively civilized.

[psalm63adam]

Originally posted by WooTang
This is actually known as the Calvinist Box. It's where you lock a new Calvinist in a box until they calm down, and get adjusted to the implications of Calvinism on the rest of their theology. I went through it too!

Is that the same kind of illustration that Mark Twain used:

"When you have a baby, take the baby and put it in a barrel. Feed the baby through a hole in the barrel. When the baby becomes a teenager, plug the hole."

Can you apply that to baby calvinists, too? j/k

But on that same note parkway, it's impossible to make an accurate assessment of someone's overall character by their posts in one forum. I agree that it should be done with humility and respect, and I appreciate the dialogue that we had on this subject. And I would gladly serve the Lord alongside you any day of the week.

Yeah, it has been good. Again, you and I debated with humility and respect, at least that's what I think. When that happens, it's a good thing. And ditto with the serving thing.

[Travis]

Originally posted by parkway
You just don't get it.

Like I've said before, Calvinism vs. Arminianism is a non-essential issue.

Does Titus one say to preach all "essential" doctrine and to refute all those who contridict all "essential" doctrine? I think not. No adding to the Bible, please.

[psalm63adam]

Originally posted by Travis
Does Titus one say to preach all "essential" doctrine and to refute all those who contridict all "essential" doctrine? I think not. No adding to the Bible, please.

Last time I checked, Titus 1 wasn't the only chapter in the Bible. It seems to me that your main concern with the Bible only has to do with the passages that seem to suggest a Calvinist viewpoint and the passages that talk about correcting and refuting others. There's plenty else in there, my friend.

[guitarplayer4jc]

If we would have dealt with each problem and misunderstanding as they happened, we would have never almost killed each other over "The Creamed Corn Incident." But that's the world for you, isn't it?

It's crazy. Not too long ago, I heard about a guy who was shot and killed during an argument errupting over a bowl of cereal. How pathetic is that?

Originally posted by Travis
Does Titus one say to preach all "essential" doctrine and to refute all those who contridict all "essential" doctrine? I think not. No adding to the Bible, please.

Please don't eat us, Travis!

*is afraid*

[psalm63adam]

Originally posted by guitarplayer4jc
It's crazy. Not too long ago, I heard about a guy who was shot and killed during an argument errupting over a bowl of cereal. How pathetic is that?

Yikes!

[psalm63adam]

RAVE - Week of 3/16/03

There is a season...

Rather than writing something concerning the seasons of our lives, I am going to post an e-mail message I received last week from one of the guys in my band. He plays the bass and keyboard, and also is an exceptional singer. Unfortunately, he is moving to Utah in May. I thought what he wrote to me about the seasons of his life was appropriate for this week's rave, and is a subject that I've been thinking a lot about, as July, the month when my first daughter will be born, is approaching.

-----------------

In the last couple of weeks, I've found my thoughts drifting more and more to the third chapter of Ecclesiastes. Last week at church, the message was about Solomon, and that turned my thoughts even more toward Ecclesiastes since Solomon is given responsibility for the book's writing. Why have my thoughts turned to Ecc. 3? Because it speaks about the fact that there are
times in a person's life, times and seasons.
-
Ecclesiastes 3 (NASB version)
1 There is an appointed time for everything. And there is a time for every event under heaven--
2 A time to give birth and a time to die;
A time to plant and a time to uproot what is planted.
3 A time to kill and a time to heal;
A time to tear down and a time to build up.
4 A time to weep and a time to laugh;
A time to mourn and a time to dance.
5 A time to throw stones and a time to gather stones;
A time to embrace and a time to shun embracing.
6 A time to search and a time to give up as lost;
A time to keep and a time to throw away.
7 A time to tear apart and a time to sew together;
A time to be silent and a time to speak.
8 A time to love and a time to hate;
A time for war and a time for peace.
9 What profit is there to the worker from that in which he toils?
10 I have seen the task which God has given the sons of men with which to occupy themselves.
11 He has made everything appropriate in its time. He has also set eternity in their heart, yet so that man will not find out the work which God has done from the beginning even to the end.
12 I know that there is nothing better for them than to rejoice and to do good in one's lifetime;
13 moreover, that every man who eats and drinks sees good in all his labor--it is the gift of God.
-
Two years ago on March 2nd, my dad died. Two days ago on March 13th, my first great-nephew was born to my oldest nephew and his wife. Tomorrow, I leave AZ to go find a new place to live and find out more about a new job's responsibilities in a new culture and new climate. In ten days, my mom will have her 80th birthday. This month marks the 20th anniversary of when I began working for SCI, the software company that I
still am a part of to this day, though not on a daily basis anymore. This month, the world is likely to see the start of a fierce war in the Middle East. So the times mentioned in Ecc. 3 are reflected in the circumstances of these days which are on my mind.
-
In my ASU West classes, one of the truths about this world that I attempt to impress upon the students, regardless of which class or subject is at hand, is the truth that, "The world is a dynamic place; things change." What is happening today, the circumstances of life at the moment, will change. They will change. Whether the circumstances are good or bad, they will change. There is a time for everything, and God has created a universe with time so that everything doesn't happen to us all at once and overwhelm us. Given that reality, I still find myself fighting the changes that time brings as it passes. Even the good changes are stressful at various points, and so I and others resist change.
-
Recently, I find myself fighting the changes less than I used to, but I wonder if the resignation that I sometimes feel about the changes that come with time is a good thing. See, I continue to realize with greater and deeper surprise that I understand so little about the way the Lord leads this world along in His plan, mixing our free wills and His purposes to create good from the evil that is present without and within humanity. I've learned so much over the years through the times that the Lord has led
through, and yet, I know that I don't understand. The wisdom of Proverbs 3:5-6 teaching us "... do not rely on your own understanding..." is a wisdom that only grows as the times of life go by. So I find myself feeling a sense of resignation, as if I've discovered that I live inside a tornado-like whirlwind and cannot really predict where the twisting and wandering of the currents of air will actually deposit me at some point. I suppose that one should sit back and enjoy the breeze and ride, letting God bring the appropriate opportunities and changes to life, making the most of what He gives, not trying to hold on to the things that His winds are pulling from your hands, accepting the things He blows into your arms from time to time. In the end, the whirlwind will go where He wills, carrying whatever He wants to where He wants.
-
Sometimes, God gifts us with fellow wind riders - people to make the journey more interesting and less frightening. Sometimes, we ride the winds alone wherever they blow. Sometimes, the winds take people away, or turn us upside down or lead us to entirely new directions. I know that the Bible compares the Spirit of God to the blowing of wind, and maybe I'm understanding that a little more these days... maybe.
-
We come to endings before we are ready. We pass beginnings before realizing and appreciating the fact that something has begun. We don't manage our times very well, at least most people I've seen don't. We want to fight the wind rather than ride its currents and manage the times of our lives, often to not much if any effect. As Ecclesiastes sums up Solomon's wisdom at the end of the book, I take the summary to mean that our raging against the winds and times of life are utterly meaningless. The final conclusion of the book is to focus on the Lord and obey His desires in our lives. That's the only way to pass the times of life and have some meaning remain when the winds stop blowing someday. And the wind does stop blowing someday. It does, no matter what we may desire.
-
I look at the times I have observed in people's lives and the times I have experienced in my own, and as the mystery of the Lord's will in this world grows more mysterious for me, the acceptance of His ultimate rule in the details of life becomes more inevitable. So the world is a dynamic place; things change. I'll just let Him do the changing and ride the wind.
-
Well, I see that an hour and more of time has passed as I've placed myself in front of the computer to write a bit. The journey toward Utah tomorrow will begin fairly early. There's a storm front coming in tonight. I wonder where the wind will blow me. Wherever it blows, at least the Lord will be there.

[psalm63adam]

RANT - Week of 3/23/03

Does anyone even watch the Oscars anymore?

I didn't this year. The only movie that I watched that was up for any major considerations was Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers, and from what I heard, that one didn't fare that well. Chicago was the big winner. I'm temporarily boycotting the Oscars until they start paying attention to movies that actually deserve to win something. I think this stems back to Memento not even getting any consideration last year.

Anyway, that's not what my rant is about.

It's about Michael Moore.

You know, the guy who won the best documentary for "Bowling For Columbine".

Even though I've never seen any of his movies, in the past I've respected him for asking some of the hard questions that American politics refuses to answer. I appreciate his hard stance on gun control, and his latest movie reflects his stance.

However, I've lost all respect for him, because of what he did at the Oscars.

I don't care if Moore doesn't like Bush. That's fine with me. I don't care if he doesn't like the fact that America is at war with Iraq. In fact, I'm not sure what my stand is on this war yet. I admire the fact that Bush is not putting up with Hussein's rhetoric and empty promises. However, I wonder if something else could have been done. Moore is entitled to his beliefs. After all, that's one of the principles that this country is founded on.

What I didn't understand (except for the obvious answer - a huge platform with a huge audience) is why Moore chose The Oscars ceremony as his time to let his beliefs be made known. I've actually never quite understood why actors and actresses seem to think that because they make movies or T.V. shows, that gives them the authority and the knowledge to be involved in other areas of American life (i.e. politics). You are entertainers, not political science teachers. You make millions of money on entertainment, yet you lambast politicians for their supposed hypocrisy. Do you remember when Susan Sarandon and Tim Robbins went off about some political thing a few years ago? Same kind of thing.

Focus more of your time on your strength, Michael Moore - documentary making - and less time on annoying us with your poor use of the Oscars to express your feelings about the war and the president.

Or maybe I'll follow you around and make a documentary on you.

[BabyBear]

Parkway, you should make a doc on Moore.

BabyBear