calvinist salvation question

saiyansniper · 02-18-2003, 12:40 PM

Hey, i've been reading up on calvinism and although i don't buy into the whole thing, nor do i know if i ever will, i was wondering if anyone here became a christian under the calvinist doctrine. maybe thats unclear.
how many people, when becoming a christian, were presented with the calvinist view or was it only after your salvation did most people commit to calvinism. for those who became a christian with the calvinist belief, how did that work, did ya go home a pray and hope you were one of the "elect"? okay, im being sarcastic there but i'd really like to know how someone who is not saved actually believe calvinist doctrine and find salvation...
thats about it for now...maybe i'll ask something more intelligent later...

guyforGod · 02-18-2003, 12:52 PM

You are confusing the issue. The elect are those that have faith. When someone comes to terms with Calvinism is irrelevant in my book. I'd say that probably all the Calvinists here (myself included) would definitly say that we are Christians, not Calvinists.. ....

**Ted Logan** · 02-18-2003, 01:03 PM

guyforgod, I think you've misunderstood the question. He's asking the Calvinists of the board whether they came to Christ within a Calvinistic worldview, or if they were noncalvinistic Christians at some time.

For example, if I became a Calvinist tomorrow, I'd have been a noncalvinist Christian for twelve years prior. He's asking if any of the Calvinists on the board have been Calvinists as long as they've been Christians.

Luke · 02-18-2003, 01:52 PM

This presupposes that everyone can trace their salvation back to a precise moment in time.

Mike Graham · 02-18-2003, 01:54 PM

I fall into the category of only understanding God's method of grace through predestination after a while of growth but do know people who got saved believing Calvinism.

saiyansniper · 02-18-2003, 03:40 PM

ted has the idea right, when someone became a christian, did they think they were choosing god or god had chose them, that kinda thing.

luke, never heard that before, not knowing exactly when someone became a christian. is that your case?

Nate · 02-18-2003, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by saiyansniper
luke, never heard that before, not knowing exactly when someone became a christian. is that your case?

I don't know about Luke, but it is certainly my case. I couldn't even tell you an exact year. I know I prayed some sort of a prayer with my dad when I was about 6 or 7 years old, but I do not think that I was truly saved at that moment in time. All I know is that by the grace of God, I stand today saved by the blood of Christ.

In His love,
Nate

Nate · 02-18-2003, 03:57 PM

And to answer the original question, I would say that when I became a Christian, I was a Calvinist but didn't know it. For quite a few years, I went on without any knowledge of the whole C-A debate. Then, I came to this site, read some stuff on both sides of the issue and ended up deciding that what I had always believed about my salvation was closer to the Calvinist viewpoint than the Arminian viewpoint. After a little more study, I became a fullblown Calvinist.

Hope that answers the question.

In His love,
Nate

**Ted Logan** · 02-18-2003, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Luke
This presupposes that everyone can trace their salvation back to a precise moment in time.

Actually, it doesn't, Luke. It presupposes that at least some do, and the question is asked of these people.

Dice · 02-18-2003, 04:23 PM

I'd be in the same group, I can't name a moment that I was saved or anything. I was raised in a Christian home with my family active in a local church, however I was idle for a long time. That idleness was broken when I kind of started over again from the basics with the Experiencing God study, but who is to know whether that was the moment of salvation or not?

Before then I had been fully hopeless for several years, then one day I had hope for no reason, I started going to a youth group, but I still felt I needed to do a bible study of sorts. The Experiencing God was definitely that, it greatly helped me kick start in spiritual disciples, activity in ministry, but most greatly my relationship with Christ. But was this a sinner called to repentance or a straying sheep back to the herd? who knows.

As for Calvinism, I didn't even know about it then, but it was definitely close to my views. Despite any and every Christian I knew being staunch Arminians (not to mention paranoid pentecostals) my experience was just too much, the hope that came from nowhere, the faith in Christ when I had been massively confused (and studying) about religions and faiths the few years before, the guidance to get on the right track, there was no explanation for it but God.

So there was nothing, then all of the sudden it all clicked. We would sing songs like "I believe" by Wes King, and the line "I believe, because He made me believe" had a special place with me (looking back it's funny they sung it at my church) I wouldn't have the worries of "it can be a good thing, but not be a God thing" like others did. I knew God brought me when I was far from Him, so how much more would He keep me when I'm with Him? And so basically what it came down to was I stood in agreement with Calvinism 2 days after being presented with it. With study, thought and prayer of course.

So was it when I prayed as a little kid? When I first had hope of an answer? When I truly recognized Christ as the way the truth and the life? When I got rid of my idleness? When I denounced my Arminian heresy (j/k

)? ....I won't try to make the call, all I know is I'm with God now and thats what matters.

Dr. Worm · 02-18-2003, 04:27 PM

I believed the bible teaches T,U,and P before I ever became a christian. Aside from scripture, my life has been the biggest reason I'm a calvinist. Arminianism simply doesn't fit with my conversion experience.

And going to a CRC college right now, I know a ton of people who were raised Calvinist.

Travis · 02-18-2003, 05:57 PM

I was undecided on the Calvinism issue when I became a Christian.

Dr. Doom · 02-18-2003, 06:08 PM

if you look on the last few pages in Theology there is a poll asking calvinists this exact question. nearly all said it took a great deal of convincing to subscribe to Calvinist theology and a few said they came to beleive it fairly quickly. but still, the general testimony was that nearly none of us came to know Christ through calvinist theology

Folgy · 02-18-2003, 06:34 PM

I was raised somewhat in a Calvinist church. But It was never a question I raised. They never really talked about, though I suppose everything came from a calvinist point of veiw. In the end, it was just always clear that Jesus died for everyone and that we need to accept that gift of forgiveness. Knowing that, after I found out what calvinism was, it just became obvious when one looks at theologically. I suppose if ever I were to become calvinist it would be becuase someone would have conclusivley prooven that Jesus in fact din't love over 7/8th of the world enough to die for them. After I was convinced of that, it would be easy!

Travis · 02-18-2003, 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Folgy
I suppose if ever I were to become calvinist it would be becuase someone would have conclusivley prooven that Jesus in fact din't love over 7/8th of the world enough to die for them. After I was convinced of that, it would be easy!

Romans 9:13-23
As it is written, "Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated."
What shall we say then? Is there injustice on God's part? By no means! For he says to Moses, "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion." So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy. For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, "For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth." So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills.
You will say to me then, "Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?" But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, "Why have you made me like this?" Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honored use and another for dishonorable use? What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory. (emphasis mine)