[PianoMan]

So I play piano, but I would like to learn how to play keyboard style. Anyone have any info I would need to know?

[Nathanael]

At the risk of sounding dumb, I ask what's the difference?

[PianoMan]

that could be my mistake actually. I play classical style stuff, and I want to know how to do rock band type keyboard. Sorry.

[Nathanael]

Oh, I asked a question like that before. Though I didn't phrase it as well...

yes, both of us would like to know how to play rock keyboard, KeyboardFreak.

[FIForever]

you got another one who wants to know.

[PianoMan]

Originally posted by JrnymnNate
KeyboardFreak.

just what I was thinking. HELP KEYBOARDFREAK!!!!!!

[Bass_Thug]

A lot of times classical players' knowledge of music theory is strangely thin. When I took piano lessons years ago, the majority of my training was in sight reading. If asked to play a C chord, I couldn't tell you. I could play Fur Elise or some other classical piece but all I was doing was reading two cleffs.

Upon making the transition to playing keyboard for church (majority of the songs being rock-style), I found myself having to learn chords such as C, Em7, and B7 that now seems so trivial to me. My advice is to advance your knowledge of music theory and chords.

A book or video on rock keyboards would help as well...try amazon or musician's friend.

[Nate]

Originally posted by JrnymnNate
yes, both of us would like to know how to play rock keyboard, KeyboardFreak.

Originally posted by PianoMan
just what I was thinking. HELP KEYBOARDFREAK!!!!!!

Haha... it's nice to know I'm needed.

I actually have some homework to do before my religion class tomorrow morning, so I can't take the time that I'd like to in replying right now, but I promise that I'll come back later this afternoon and give y'all some pointers. In the meantime, check out these semi-recent threads on semi-similar subjects:

http://www.christianguitar.org/forum...threadid=44276

http://www.christianguitar.org/forum...threadid=36899

http://www.christianguitar.org/forum...threadid=20199

Hopefully that will keep y'all busy until I get done with my homework.

Also, I would like to add that what BassThug said is absolutely, and unfortunately, true. Many, many, many classical pianists know little or nothing of music theory. Here is a list of things that you should know well (well meaning extensive knowledge of the subject such that you could explain it to others):

Major and minor chords - what they are, what they sound like, how to form them, how to play them
Suspended chords - what they are, what they sound like, how to form them, how to play them
Dominant, major, and minor seventh chords - what they are, what they sound like, how to form them, how to play them
Chord inversions - what they are, what they sound like, how to form them, how to play them
Major and minor scales - what they are, what they sound like, how to form them, how to play them
Key signatures - what they are, what they mean, what chords are included in any given key
Chord symbols - what they are, what they mean, what chords they indicate
Simple voice leading - what chord combinations sound good, what chord combinations sound bad, what to do in between chord changes

That's a short list of things that I think are crucial to just about ANY musician, regardless of instrument, skill level, or playing style.

In His love,
Nate

[Nate]

And yes, there is a difference between playing piano and playing keyboard. There are some things that you can do on piano that you just can't do on keyboard, and vice-versa.

[Nate]

Ok, I'm back.

I'm not entirely sure where the two (three?? four??) of you stand as far as theory knowledge and playing ability, but I will try to give some basics. I'll probably start by just explaining the list that I gave above.

Major and minor scales
A major scale is a series of eight notes (one of which is actually a duplicate of the first note) with the intervallic pattern between each successive note being whole step/major second, whole step/major second, half step/minor second, whole step/major second, whole step/major second, whole step/major second, half step/minor second. In other words, the intervallic distance between the first note of a major scale and the second note of a major scale is a whole step/major second, the intervallic distance between the second note and the third note is a whole step/major second, the intervallic distance between the third note and the fourth note is a half step/minor second, etc, etc, etc, and the intervallic distance between the seventh note and the eighth and final note is a half step/minor second. It just so happens that the C major scale consists of every white note on the piano starting at C; this small piece of information will be useful later, remember it.

A minor scale is a series of eight notes (one of which is actually a duplicate of the first note) with the intervallic pattern between each successive note being whole step/major second, half step/minor second, whole step/major second, whole step/major second, half step/minor second, whole step/major second, whole step/major second. In other words, the intervallic distance between the first note of a minor scale and second note of a minor scale is a whole step/major second, the intervallic distance between the second note and the third note is a half step/minor second, etc, etc, etc, and the intervallic distance between the seventh note and the eighth and final note is a whole step/major second. It just so happens that the A minor scale consists of every white note on the piano starting at A; this will also be useful later, remember it.

Each note of a scale is called a "scale degree" and is assigned a number. The first note of a scale is the first scale degree, the second note of a scale is the second scale degree, and so forth.

There are actually three different forms of the minor scale. The one that I have just described is what is usually called the natural minor scale. The second form is called the harmonic minor scale and is derived by changing the final intervallic distance (the one between the seventh and eighth scale degrees) to a half step/minor second. Another way to think of the harmonic minor scale is to think of it as a natural minor scale with the seventh scale degree raised up a half step. The third form is only used when the scale is played up the piano (moving towards the right side, getting higher in pitch); it is called the melodic minor scale and is derived by raising the sixth and seventh scale degrees a half step. Remember, this ONLY happens when you are ascending; when you are descending, the melodic minor scale is identical to the natural minor scale.

Examples:
The D major scale consists of the notes D, E, F#, G, A, B , C#, and D. D to E is a whole step, E to F# is a whole step, F# to G is a half step, etc, etc, etc, and C# to D is a half step.
The G natural minor scale consists of the notes G, A, Bb, C, D, Eb, F, and G. G to A is a whole step, A to Bb is a half step, Bb to C is a whole step, etc, etc, etc, and F to G is a whole step.
The G harmonic minor scale consists of the notes G, A, Bb, C, D, Eb, F#, and G. F# is the only note that is different from the G natural minor scale and it is contrived by changing the intervallic distance between the seventh and eighth scale degrees of the natural minor scale to a half step/minor second. Or, in other words, by raising the seventh scale of the natural minor scale a half step. So, the F of the G natural minor scale becomes F#.
The G melodic minor scale (when ascending) consists of the notes G, A, Bb, C, D, E natural, F#, and G. E natural and F# are the only notes that are different from the G natural minor scale and they are contrived by raising the sixth and seventh scale degrees of the natural minor scale each a half step. So, the Eb of the G natural minor scale becomes E natural and the F of the G natural minor scale becomes F#. Remember that it reverts back to the normal natural minor scale form when you start descending.

Another thing that is CRUCIAL to understand is that a natural minor scale can actually be derived from a major scale. If you look at the notes of a major scale (continued two octaves), you will see that they actually contain a minor scale. For example: C major has the notes C, D, E, F, G, A, B, C, D, E, F, G, A, B, and C. If you look at those same notes starting on the sixth scale degree and ending on the same scale degree up an octave, you will see something peculiar. It looks like this: A, B, C, D, E, F, G, and A. Those are the notes of the A minor scale. Every minor scale can be contrived by starting on the sixth scale degree of a major scale and using the same notes that that particular major scale uses. The relationship between the first scale degree of the major scale and the first scale degree of the minor scale that can be contrived from can always be described by the intervallic distance of a major sixth upwards or a minor third downwards. The minor scale and major scale that can be formed using this method are called relatives of one another; i.e. relative major scale and relative minor scale. So, for example: To find the relative minor scale of a D major scale, you would either move up a major sixth from D or down a minor third from D. Either way, you end up with B. Then, if you start on that note and use only the notes found in the D major scale, you will end up with a B natural minor scale. It would look like this: B, C#, D, E, F#, G, A, and B. The B natural minor scale is the relative minor scale of the D major scale, and the D major scale is the relative major scale of the B natural minor scale.

Major and minor chords
A major chord consists of a root note, a note that is a major third above that, and a note that is a perfect fifth above the root / or a minor third above the second note of the chord. The first note is called the root, the note a major third above that is called the third, and the note a perfect fifth above the root is called the fifth.

A minor chord consists of a root note, a note that is a minor third above that, and a note that is a perfect fifth above the root / or a major third above the second note of the chord. The first note is called the root, the note a minor third above that is called the third, and the note a perfect fifth above the root is called the fifth.

Another way to think about chords is to think of a major or minor scale, matching them with a major and minor chord respectively, that is built upon the root of the chord you wish to find and then count from the first note of that scale up to the third note and then up to the fifth note. The first note of the scale will be the root of the chord, the third will be the third of said chord, and the fifth will be the fifth.

Examples:
C major would consist of C, E, and G. C is the root, E is a major third above C and is the third, and G is a perfect fifth above C and a minor third above E and is the fifth. C is the first note of the C major scale, E is the third note of the C major scale, and G is the fifth note of the C major scale.
G minor would consist of G, Bb, and D. G is the root, Bb is a minor third above G and is the third, and D is a perfect fifth above G and a major third above Bb and is the fifth. G is the first note of the G minor scale, Bb is the third note of the G minor scale, and D is the fifth note of the G minor scale. The first, third, and fifth notes of a minor scale are always the same, no matter what form of the minor scale you are using.

Ok, I'm probably running out of room. Y'all probably already knew all of this, but I wanted to make sure. Just ask if anything is confusing. I'm about to get into a couple different kinds of chords, so if anything is too confusing, you better stop me soon.

[EDIT] I just thought of a few things that I absolutely must make clear before I leave the subject of major and minor scales and chords.

Lots of well meaning friends, relatives, teachers, piano afficionados, theory drill sergeants, and energetic worship leaders will tell you that a minor scale is simply a major scale with a flat third, sixth, and seventh scale degrees or that a minor chord is simply a major chord with a flat third. While this is true and effective when put into practice, it is absolutely crucial that you remove any vestiges of this thought process from your mind as quickly and as permanently as possible. This is the most awful way to think of the relationship between major and minor scales and chords that I could possibly think of. Please, do yourself a favor and start eliminating these thoughts now. [/EDIT]

In His love,
Nate

[FIForever]

ok, I'm a classical pianist who knows a decent amount of theory (I've done Grade Pre-2 Rudiments in the Royal Conservatory of Canada and I'm working on Harmony now) but I have one question: of the things you listed I have no clue what a suspended chord is. What is a suspended chord?

[Nate]

Originally posted by FIForever
What is a suspended chord?

Ok... now we're getting somewhere. Suspended chords will be explained in my next post, which will probably come some time tomorrow afternoon. In the meantime, is there anything else that anybody has any questions about, 'cause once I get past all of this basic stuff (probably in the next one or two posts, 'cause I don't really have much else to touch on), I'll be referring to it quite a bit and I don't want to lose y'all in all of the jargon and such. I know I'll be stating the obvious for most everybody, but I just want to make sure that we're all on the same page.

In His love,
Nate

[PianoMan]

I actually have most this stuff down since my 1st or second piano teacher drilled me in all the scales until I could do any of them instantly. Also, in Orchestra, we do major, minor, interval, etc. chords everyday.

What I am wanting to know right now is how they differ and how to actually play the keyboard style. Thanks!

[Nate]

Originally posted by PianoMan
I actually have most this stuff down since my 1st or second piano teacher drilled me in all the scales until I could do any of them instantly. Also, in Orchestra, we do major, minor, interval, etc. chords everyday.

Ok, I apologize. I just wanted to make sure that we were all starting from the same place. I've had times before where I would say something and people would just go "huh? "

Forgive me if I'm reiterating stuff that you already know.

What I am wanting to know right now is how they differ and how to actually play the keyboard style. Thanks!

I will get to this sometime today, maybe. I have class until 7:00 tonight, and I have homework that I have to do, but I will try to find some time to come and reply later this evening.

So, we have a list of things which I should be discussing when I get the chance:

Suspended chords
The difference between playing piano and playing keyboard
How to play "keyboard style" or, in other words, "rock and roll keyboard"

Does anybody else have anything they would like to add to the list??

In His love,
Nate

[Nathanael]

Progressive Rock method, if you don't mind