2 Peter 3:9

WhiteRob · 02-04-2003, 12:44 PM

I'm a believer in calvinism, but I haven't found a really clear cut answer to this verse, "The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance." Can some explain the meaning of this? BTW, sorry for posting that has probably been posted before, but I couldn't search for it "2" is under the minum number of 4 words when trying to search the forums.

guitarman · 02-04-2003, 12:53 PM

"The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance."

Read the entire context

Peter is making a defense against those who mock the Christians. The Christians are being mokced because of their claims that Christ will return. Those who mock the Christians are assuming that if Christ was going to return at all, He would have done it by now -- but Christ hadn't come back yet, so these Christians must be foolish.

In the context of his defence, Peter is explaining why Christ has yet to return: He is waiting for those whom He has predestined to come to repentance to actually come to repentance. The Lord is not slow in His return, as Peter says, He is simply working out the plans that He has had since the foundation of the earth -- The Lord does not want to cut off those whom He has predestined for repentance, but rather for those whom He has predestined to indeed come.

Make sense?

~~Aaron

**Ted Logan** · 02-04-2003, 12:59 PM

So... all doesn't mean all?

This, in my opinion, is very poor exegesis and indicative of the Calvinist problem.

SnapCase · 02-04-2003, 01:06 PM

Ted has a good point. The word here in Greek is "panta" a plural form of "pas" which has an all-encompassing meaning to it. It definetly means all to its fullest extent.

benj · 02-04-2003, 01:13 PM

Context... This would mean all as in all... All of whom? The beloved, no?

**Ted Logan** · 02-04-2003, 01:21 PM

Again, we have the first problem. All of whom? If God desires that all men be saved (as the Bible states), and all are not, is His sovereignty assaulted? Those of us who are not Calvinists say, 'no'. But if God desires only that His elect be saved, and He has secured that for certain, then what is He waiting for? For them all to accept Him? Sounds like He's waiting for them to make a choice...

Or is He waiting for His Holy Spirit to enlighten their hearts? What is He waiting for?

**Athanasius** · 02-04-2003, 01:29 PM

Context, context, context.

2 Peter 1:1

1Simon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ,
To those who through the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ have received a faith as precious as ours:

This book is written to believers.

The verse plainly says "He is patient with you". The context does not support Arminianism...it supports Perseverance of the Saints. The whole chapter is written to believers, read it...it's "you" this, and "brothers" that...

Unless you want to rip these words from Peter's mouth and out his rear, and forget his audience...you cannot make "all" mean "every man woman and child in the world" in this context.

To quote a great Bible teacher... "This Wasn't Written To You, Stupid*"

Peace.

The usage of the word "stupid" here is not meant to be a personal attack, but is just there for emphasis. In any case, it's just a quote...

zatchster · 02-04-2003, 01:29 PM

I'd say He is waiting for His plan through time to unfold. Here in time, many who would be saved have not yet been born. And yes, He's waiting for them all to accept Him (and to be born, so to be able to accept Him). sidenote: Calvinists don't deny that we make a choice to accept Him.

benj · 02-04-2003, 01:34 PM

All of the Beloved.

In context of this letter, Peter is talking to the "Beloved" (3:8). Who is he writing to? "To those who have recieved of the same kind as ours" (1:1).

So in 3:9, where is the antecedant of "you" in v.9? Is it not those who he is writing to, the Beloved?

benj · 02-04-2003, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by AlwaysReforming
Context, context, context.

2 Peter 1:1

1Simon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ,
To those who through the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ have received a faith as precious as ours:

This book is written to believers.

The verse plainly says "He is patient with you". The context does not support Arminianism...it supports Perseverance of the Saints. The whole chapter is written to believers, read it...it's "you" this, and "brothers" that...

Unless you want to rip these words from Peter's mouth and out his rear, and forget his audience...you cannot make "all" mean "every man woman and child in the world" in this context.

To quote a great Bible teacher... "This Wasn't Written To You, Stupid*"

Peace.

The usage of the word "stupid" here is not meant to be a personal attack, but is just there for emphasis. In any case, it's just a quote...

Jonathan beat me.

But he said it better.

**Athanasius** · 02-04-2003, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by benj
All of the Beloved.

In context of this letter, Peter is talking to the "Beloved" (3:8). Who is he writing to? "To those who have recieved of the same kind as ours" (1:1).

So in 3:9, where is the antecedant of "you" in v.9? Is it not those who he is writing to, the Beloved?

If anything, this verse is one of the best supporting verses for Unconditional Election, Irresistable Grace, and Perseverance of the Saints.

Danny · 02-04-2003, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Ted Logan:
Again, we have the first problem. All of whom? If God desires that all men be saved (as the Bible states), and all are not, is His sovereignty assaulted? Those of us who are not Calvinists say, 'no'. But if God desires only that His elect be saved, and He has secured that for certain, then what is He waiting for? For them all to accept Him? Sounds like He's waiting for them to make a choice...

Or is He waiting for His Holy Spirit to enlighten their hearts? What is He waiting for?

Perhaps it is in God's perfect will for some of His chosen to endure sin for a time, so that they might be a better witness to others who are unsaved.

**Athanasius** · 02-04-2003, 01:37 PM

*Totally off topic...Benj, what is that in your sig...it's awesome!

benj · 02-04-2003, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by AlwaysReforming
If anything, this verse is one of the best supporting verses for Unconditional Election, Irresistable Grace, and Perseverance of the Saints.

I totally agree.

benj · 02-04-2003, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by AlwaysReforming
*Totally off topic...Benj, what is that in your sig...it's awesome!

Thanks. Wish I could write something like that. It is "Rock of Ages" by Augustus Toplady. One of my favorite hymns these days.