[GMartin2R]

Originally posted by froggee501
What?! uh-uh! It's three half steps down, not two steps down!

so therefore, you would play the relative minor scale over a major key's progression, according to GMartin2R

Examples:
C --> Am
D --> Bm
E --> C#m

yeah lol... i guess that's what late nights'll do to you. mix up your mind.:kspin:

but yeah that's what i meant

[regulon]

Bumped to ask y'all a question about wholenote.com, which was a recommendation from one of the dudes here...he recommended that I memorize the pentatonic major and minor scales first, then I should be able to play some basic lead...
Problem is, I don't know exactly how to read it...I successfully got the scales, but I don't know what the inversions mean...also, do I just read the tabs left to right and downward from that point? :kconf:

[regulon]

I see that this forum is struggling, to say the least...where are all the experts to help a lost guitarist...

[GMartin2R]

i'm not sure what you mean by inversion

could you post what you're talking about? that may help...

[nate95366]

Bumped to ask y'all a question about wholenote.com, which was a recommendation from one of the dudes here...he recommended that I memorize the pentatonic major and minor scales first, then I should be able to play some basic lead...
Problem is, I don't know exactly how to read it...I successfully got the scales, but I don't know what the inversions mean...also, do I just read the tabs left to right and downward from that point?

Chords can be inverted, while scales cannot be inverted. Take a C Major chord. The root is C, the third is E, and the fifth is G. A normal C chord has the root positioned as the bass note. When you invert the chord, or "turn it over on itself," you make some other note in the chord the bass note. There are two other possibilities with any 3-note chord. We can make E the bass note (still playing all notes for a C chord), and that's called the first inversion. Or, we can make G the bass note, and that's called second inversion.

So, the general formula is like this:

"Root Position" = root as the bass note
"First inversion" = third as the bass note
"Second inversion" = fifth as the bass note

Does that help?

Nate

[Nate]

I doubt very much that that's going to help him much, Nate. If everybody here is wondering why in the world he's talking about inversions of a scale.... go to wholenote.com, then go the basics tab, then use the scale finder to generate a scale. When the scale generates, a menu box pops up that allows you to select a different root note, a different scale type, and ..... a different "inversion".

From what I can tell by taking a quick glance over the charts generated by each inversion... it's looking to me like they are talking about modes. There are 8 "inversions" to select from, numbered 0 through 7, and 7 doesn't seem to work on any normal scale type. Selecting 0 makes the root the lowest note on the chart, selecting 1 makes the 2nd scale degree the lowest note on the chart, etc, etc.

So.. to answer regulon's question about scale inversions.

What wholenote's scale generator app allows you to do with the "inversion" tab is select any one of the modes of a given scale. If the term "mode" is not familiar to you, it basically means playing the notes of any given scale starting on a scale degree other than the root note. For example, if you were to go to wholenote and ask for a D major scale in "1st inversion", you would see a chart that included the notes D,E,F#,G,A,B,C#, and D... but the chart would have E as the lowest note rather than D. The new note order would be E,F#,G,A,B,C#,D, E. Most music theory buffs like to call this the Dorian mode and would label this scale as E Dorian, because it starts on E. You don't have to use such fancy names if you don't want to though, you could theoretically call it the mode of the D major scale that starts on the 2nd scale degree, or possibly even the 2nd mode of D major, 1st mode being the one that starts on the root. NEVER NEVER NEVER would anyone with even a fleeting knowledge of music theory call it the 1st inversion of D major. It just doesn't work that way. Make sense?

So.. if you are generating major or minor pentatonic scales, there should only be 5 different "inversions" that will generate anything... let me go check to make sure this is right.

*goes and checks*... seriously, I am

Yes, I was right. On a C major pentatonic scale, the "inversions" 0-4 yield the five notes C,D,E,G, and A... with each "inversion" starting on each successive scale degree, starting with C as "inversion 0"

Hope this makes sense to you.

In His love,
Nate

P.S. Just so you know, the term "inversion" really isn't supposed to be used with scales... wholenote should have used the term "mode" instead.

[outlawnemesis]

Aye aye aye! If you don't know what it means I strongly suggest someone else plays it...

[regulon]

Hmm, things have been cleared up considerably, thanks KeyboardFreak and all...heh heh, it looks like I don't have even "a fleeting knowledge of music theory", then, cuz I sure didn't know what da heck was going on with the scales...
Now, for my other question...do I just read each tab left to right and downward, like reading a book, cuz all the notes are squished together

[Nate]

Originally posted by regulon
Now, for my other question...do I just read each tab left to right and downward, like reading a book, cuz all the notes are squished together

What is shown on those scale charts is most likely (I can't say for sure 'cause I'm not a guitarist and have never actually read or used one) every single note in a 6-or-so fret range that is part of the scale you selected. For example: if you had picked D major, there very well may be five places within the 6 strings and 6 frets on the chart in which you could play a D, the tonic of the scale you selected. Same thing with all the other scale degrees - E, F#, G, A, B, and C#.

Now obviously you don't want to play all of the notes of the scale in all of the positions possible. So, in short, no, you don't want to read and play every single note on the chart.

What the chart is designed to do is to show you every possible "safe" note to play. It shows you every single fret position that would create a note in the selected scale, but it leaves it up to you to arrange those positions and notes as you see fit.

Hope that helps.

In His love,
Nate

[Nate]

Originally posted by regulon
it looks like I don't have even "a fleeting knowledge of music theory", then, cuz I sure didn't know what da heck was going on with the scales

Hehe. It's ok, 'cause apparently the guy who made the chart generator for WholeNote didn't know what he was doing either.

More than likely, he developed the chart for chords (seeing as it uses chord terminology such as "root" and "inversion") and then adapted it to include scales as well (corresponding scale terminology should be "tonic" and "mode").

In His love,
Nate

[regulon]

Wow, thanks for the knowledge, KeyboardFreak...

[Nate]

Originally posted by regulon
Wow, thanks for the knowledge, KeyboardFreak...

No problem dude.

In His love,
Nate