[Borgosi]

I read post here about "the words should be about..." okay, that's fine but what about music that doesn't have words? Most classical music has no words and much of it is thought of as christian. I know this place is mostly about rock but should music be judged by words alone? Now understand that I'm not talking about so called "adult content". I have albums that were called Satanic by many when first released but nothing about them is Satanic. An example is Aphrodite's Child's release 666. It came out in 1971. It was composed by Vangelis Papathanassiou with lyrics by Costas Ferris. It could be called a rock opera based on Revelation. It's very heavy guitar rock and many people weren't ready for it in '71 and still aren't. As far as the back grounds of the folks in the bands go, if a group of drug using satanists made a rock album that was the King James Bible set to music would it be a satanic album? For myself I don't think you can label music as Christian or non Christian. At least not as far as other people are concerned. If it helps you to become closer to God or if you can use that music to help you to bring others to God then it has served a good purpose. "All things can work for the good of God" means ALL THINGS. Don't limit what God can do or what God can use. I'm not saying that all music is Christian music or that any song that helps someone get saved is Christian. I do believe that sometimes what is Christian is personal. Some people lead very ruff lives then become Christians and go from church to church telling everyone how bad they were. To some it might sound like they're bragging, but we know better...don't we?

[rockin4theking]

My definition is based on two important things:

1)The term "Christian," in it's truest sense, can only define a person, not a thing.

and

2) A Christian's faith applies broadly to anything a Christian does.

Basically, "Christian" cannot be a song, a book, a style of music, t-shirt, insert-item-here. "Christian" is not a category; it's a person.

So I define "Christian" music as music, (doesn't matter what genre or what it's about), that is written and performed by a Christian.

[miller]

ive always thought that since there are no chords on my guitar that are "christian chords" than it would be hard to make christian music.

[Godsglory]

I see where all of you are coming from, but...The word "Christian" means Little Christ, or Imitator of Christ.....so therefore, God has called us to be holy or "set apart" ....I am a musician myself and I prefer to have my music and lyrics under the label of "Christian" particularly because if we as Christians are called to be holy, don't you think the music we write should glorify God's name....sure some of the "secular" artists don't use profanity or don't speak against God, but do they glorify God? Even though their lyrics are not bad, they still don't give glory to God....Because in order to give glory to God, you have to give God credit....do secular artists do that? maybe in the "thanks" area of their cd inserts, but are their lyrics in their songs doing it?
So I do do believe that there is Christian music.

[Godsglory]

I kinda over-read your part about the non-lyric music....I kinda got caught up in the other replies.....The bible does say to praise God through stringed instruments and cymbals and all of the other instruments named....But then again, are the composers of that music living a Godly lifestyle and Glorifying God with their music? That's how I would classify that music as Christian or not.

[Abiyda]

Ok let's look at this for a second. Christian does mean "little christ" or christ like. Therefore, when we are a christian, we are acting like christ. Whenever we sit down and play our instruments, we must play this with a christ-like attitude. We have to remeber who we're doing it for. In romans, Paul tells us to bring everything before God as a living sacrifice, our everyday lives must be consecrated unto God. This includes our music.

[Jared]

Originally Posted by Godsglory

I see where all of you are coming from, but...The word "Christian" means Little Christ, or Imitator of Christ.....so therefore, God has called us to be holy or "set apart" ....I am a musician myself and I prefer to have my music and lyrics under the label of "Christian" particularly because if we as Christians are called to be holy, don't you think the music we write should glorify God's name....sure some of the "secular" artists don't use profanity or don't speak against God, but do they glorify God? Even though their lyrics are not bad, they still don't give glory to God....Because in order to give glory to God, you have to give God credit....do secular artists do that? maybe in the "thanks" area of their cd inserts, but are their lyrics in their songs doing it?
So I do do believe that there is Christian music.

Biblically, you are dead wrong.

You've bought into one of the most deadening myths of the Church.

Psalm 19:1-3 reminds us of the reality of God-in-the-world. "For the heavens declare the glory of the Lord, the skies show the beautiful work of his hands. Every day the heavens speak, and night after night they show forth knowledge. There is no speech or language where their voice is not heard." The Hebrew in these verses is quite astonishing. Literally, verse 1 goes like this: The heavens tell the story of the glory—literally, the heaviness, the weightiness, the substance—of God. God's invisible glory is seen in the tangible, beautiful things of this world. God's substance is revealed in the created acts of this world.

The Word and the world speak eloquently, not one better than the other—just differently. The Word presents one poetic vision of God and the world another. Will I stand in awe before both poetic visions? The beauty of God-in-the-world is the reality that we can see and experience God everywhere. "There is no speech or language where the voice is not heard." Art is an eloquent language revealing the presence of the Lord.

If it is true that every human being bears the image of God, then every human being who creates, speaks, sings, writes, or sculpts reflects something of the Creator. In fact, I would argue that the only effective denial of the existence of God is the refusal to create—to remain silent in the face of chaos and suffering. At any point of human artistic creation, we press the fingerprints of God into existence. In the shadow of God's absence in this world, every day is an opportunity to express, and every creative act calls forth the presence of God in beautiful colors and sounds and textures. God is present in sensuous beauty just as much as God is present in the rational word.

Intriguingly, whether a work is categorized as secular or sacred, Christian or non-Christian isn't really the point. Instead, there is something about the work of art that should call you to worship, and in opening yourself to art, you are allowing God an occasion to connect and speak to you. If something is sacred, it does not necessarily mean that it is Christian, but that it is set apart from the mundane and the banal, and it brings the profound presence of God to one's world. Every moment is an opportunity to create and experience a sacred world or a secular world.
This is one of the great ironies of our Christian culture today: by refusing art or ignoring art we lead acutely secular lives. However, by opening ourselves to the artist's vision, we have the chance to live in the splendid light of the sacred.

[Jared]

Originally Posted by Godsglory

I kinda over-read your part about the non-lyric music....I kinda got caught up in the other replies.....The bible does say to praise God through stringed instruments and cymbals and all of the other instruments named....But then again, are the composers of that music living a Godly lifestyle and Glorifying God with their music? That's how I would classify that music as Christian or not.

So how do you know Steven Curtis Chapman is a Christian? Have you ever observed his lifestyle?

Would you automatically dismiss Michael English's work because he had an affair (made public)?

Where do you get off thinking that unless something was Holy-Spirit-breathed from start to finish that it is not to be trusted?
You have been naive in thinking that Christians control the Holy Spirit and define the parameters of his involvement in larger society.

This is the kind of thinking that believes God cannot get anywhere until we get there first. Somehow I think God is bigger than this.

God cannot be thus contained. Nor is truth a market controlled by Vineyard Music or the Christian Bookseller's Association. Truth is an open commodity shared by even those who have no conscious connection to God.

[miller]

So how do you know Steven Curtis Chapman is a Christian? Have you ever observed his lifestyle?

Would you automatically dismiss Michael English's work because he had an affair (made public)?

Where do you get off thinking that unless something was Holy-Spirit-breathed from start to finish that it is not to be trusted?
You have been naive in thinking that Christians control the Holy Spirit and define the parameters of his involvement in larger society.

This is the kind of thinking that believes God cannot get anywhere until we get there first. Somehow I think God is bigger than this.

God cannot be thus contained. Nor is truth a market controlled by Vineyard Music or the Christian Bookseller's Association. Truth is an open commodity shared by even those who have no conscious connection to God.

amen, that michael english story is a good one


and also i just read a story a few minutes ago about a teacher that showed his class 2 paintings. one was of jesus floating and the cross was behind him, the other was just a regular portrait. he asked the class which was the christian painting, and they replied the one with jesus in it. the one with jesus was actually done by salvador dali who was not a christian and was actually mocking christ, he was off the cross, meaning to question whether or not he had really died on the cross. the other was done by rembrandt a well-known christian. and the thing is rembrandt tried his best (cos we are to do all things as if doing them for christ) and was a christian while the painting with jesus in it, was actually a mockery of christ.

[rock man]

I personally don't think that you should label music christian. To me music is an art form. It's a form of self expression. A lot of the christian artists out their are writing their stuff to be blatently christian and to me that's not what music is supposed to be. Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying blatently christian songs are bad. But to me if an artisti can talk about real life issues and stuff we go through everyday, then he writes a very blatent christian song, it has more meaning to me because I know that the artist wrote it from his/her heart because their cd is full of stuff from their life. Take a band like P.O.D. they write stuff about their personall experiences (Thinking about forever, Will you) and stuff that points people directly to God (Alive,Satellite,)

[markcccu]

Originally Posted by Jared

Biblically, you are dead wrong.

Psalm 19:1-3 reminds us of the reality of God-in-the-world. "For the heavens declare the glory of the Lord, the skies show the beautiful work of his hands. Every day the heavens speak, and night after night they show forth knowledge. There is no speech or language where their voice is not heard." The Hebrew in these verses is quite astonishing. Literally, verse 1 goes like this: The heavens tell the story of the glory—literally, the heaviness, the weightiness, the substance—of God. God's invisible glory is seen in the tangible, beautiful things of this world. God's substance is revealed in the created acts of this world.

The Word and the world speak eloquently, not one better than the other—just differently. The Word presents one poetic vision of God and the world another. Will I stand in awe before both poetic visions? The beauty of God-in-the-world is the reality that we can see and experience God everywhere.....

If it is true that every human being bears the image of God, then every human being who creates, speaks, sings, writes, or sculpts reflects something of the Creator. .....

Intriguingly, whether a work is categorized as secular or sacred, Christian or non-Christian isn't really the point. Instead, there is something about the work of art that should call you to worship, and in opening yourself to art, you are allowing God an occasion to connect and speak to you. If something is sacred, it does not necessarily mean that it is Christian, but that it is set apart from the mundane and the banal, and it brings the profound presence of God to one's world. Every moment is an opportunity to create and experience a sacred world or a secular world.
This is one of the great ironies of our Christian culture today: by refusing art or ignoring art we lead acutely secular lives. However, by opening ourselves to the artist's vision, we have the chance to live in the splendid light of the sacred.

It's true we do bear the image of God (Genesis 1:26) but it's important to know what is meant by "reflecting the image of God" when we create. The ability to create reflects God's image but we must not confuse the ability with the substance. In other words, what we create may or may not reflect God. Just because someone writes a song doesn't mean that any part of that song glorifies God. He cannot deny Himself (2 Timothy 2:13) therefore any man-created thing that truly reflects God will point to Him as His own creation does.

Giving anything a label seems to have inherent weaknesses. Most things are not adequately defined with labels. However, while labels often times fall short of defining something there is a practical value (to a degree) to having and using them. When it is asked "What is Christian music?" the answers to that can vary and all be correct. For instance you could rightly say that Christian music is that which glorifies Jesus Christ. Then you have a whole new discussion about what it means to glorify God. In order to classify music as Christian it should fall in line with the biblical understanding of Christianity. Now all you have to do is define biblical Christianity.
God is good. (really)

[J.W4Christ]

i tink christian music is meant to praise God and lift him up

[s0233425]

Originally Posted by rock man

Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying blatently christian songs are bad. But to me if an artisti can talk about real life issues and stuff we go through everyday, then he writes a very blatent christian song, it has more meaning to me because I know that the artist wrote it from his/her heart because their cd is full of stuff from their life.

Try listening to some of Keith Greens' music. He writes about real life experiences and tells of what he's learned through the bible.
Why would you want to hear the secular solution to your problems? Most of the time it's lies!

Regards
Ross

[J.W4Christ]

Originally Posted by s0233425

Try listening to some of Keith Greens' music. He writes about real life experiences and tells of what he's learned through the bible.
Why would you want to hear the secular solution to your problems? Most of the time it's lies!

Regards
Ross

yeah some r lies but not all but i still tink christian song is the best to lsiten to of course

[agrimes87]

"Christian music" is a broad spectrum. You can't define it as "music written by christians", because some self-proclaiming christians may not write music that's fit to listen to.

You can't define it as "music that's written to give praise to God about his characteristics", because that's worship music, and the stereotypical "christian music" label applies to a broader area than just worship music.

I don't think music should be labelled as christian and non-christian. I judge music by it's lyrical content (I don't think there's any instrumental music I wouldn't listen to). If the lyrics reflect values that are true and good, I have no problem with it. If the lyrics reflect values that are immoral, I do have a problem with it.

If someone writes a song about his girlfriend, and how much he loves her, I don't see anything wrong with that. If he writes about how much he wants to "make love" to her, I do see something wrong with that, because sex outside of marriage is wrong.

The ultimate test is "does it bring me closer to God, or farther away?" Nobody sits on the fence, or stays still. In our christian walk we're either growing closer to God, or we're falling away from him. And music has a profound impact on us, whether we realize it or not.