[smitty2622]

Natalie Faith, very nice post I felt no judgment at all, and in turn would not judge you but commend you for your faith in a sometimes very confused world.




Peace

[Natalie Faith]

biblical backing, because they use it. And you are wrong to be doing so.

Well it's probably just as frustrating to hear you tell me that it is a sin without biblical proof

Okay, you ask for Bible backing from me and I can give you scripture everywhere that talks about fertility and children being a blessing and all that stuff that you say is irrelevant and yet where is your scripture? Where can you back up being so in control of your life that you don't want to give GOD the chance to bless your pants off! You don't want children?! What does GOD want for you?
Where is your scripture? No ONE and I say; not one person that disagrees with my conviction on BC has shown me scripture to back themselves and their view up... Please, I beg of you, give me the Word of GOD because your words mean nothing to me.

This conviction was impressed upon my heart by the Holy Spirit of GOD and He alone revealed to me that it is a sin. This is not some lame excuse for me to have as many children as I want and say "Oh, GOD said it was okay..." IF I have any children they will be a blessing to my life like no other. IF GOD does not allow me to conceive, I will be just as blessed that I gave GOD the decision to do what He wanted with my life.

That BC is a sin is the FACT that scripture in the NT uses the word sin when referring to Christians who sin, the Greek word when translated literally means "to miss the mark."
By not trusting GOD utterly I am "missing the mark." Sinning.
By using BC, I personally don't feel that I trust GOD's judgement on when to use my body to create life. I am telling Him, "I don't want kids now Lord!" Just because it's not my timing never means it's not GOD's.

Tell me something else...Am I wrong for trusting GOD this much? Am I trusting Him too much? Can I trust GOD too much?
If I can trust GOD too much I don't see the point in having a GOD like He is.
A wise man once told me that "if you only need a little bit of GOD, you don't need GOD."

[SnapCase]

It was said that "the pill" does not cause abortion when it indeed does. The regular, standard use of the pill can create a hostile environment for a fertilized egg leading to the abortion of a baby.

Basically, its equivilant to letting a child play with a gun. You know it's dangerous, but you allow it anyway.

[Dr. Doom]

Originally posted by Natalie Faith
Okay, you ask for Bible backing from me and I can give you scripture everywhere that talks about fertility and children being a blessing and all that stuff that you say is irrelevant and yet where is your scripture?

it is irrelevant because fertility and children being a blessing do not pertain to birth control.

Originally posted by Natalie Faith
Where can you back up being so in control of your life that you don't want to give GOD the chance to bless your pants off! You don't want children?! What does GOD want for you?

know what God wants from us? to enjoy sex with our spouse. odd how humans are the only animals who engage in sex when not entirely thinking of procreation.

Originally posted by Natalie Faith
Where is your scripture? No ONE and I say; not one person that disagrees with my conviction on BC has shown me scripture to back themselves and their view up... Please, I beg of you, give me the Word of GOD because your words mean nothing to me.

here is what extremeguy007 said already:
"I Cor 7:3-5 -
"The husband should fulfill his marital duty to his wife, and likewise the wife to her husband. The wife's body does not belong to her alone but also to her husband. In the same way, the husband's body does not belong to him alone but also to his wife. Do not deprive each other except by mutual consent and for a time, so that you may devote yourselves to prayer. Then come together again so that Satan will not tempt you because of your lack of self-control."

hmmm that seems to say we have responibilites to our spouse regarding physical love. do you think that sex is only for having offspring?

Originally posted by Natalie Faith
This conviction was impressed upon my heart by the Holy Spirit of GOD and He alone revealed to me that it is a sin.

many people think God is telling them something, when He isn't. may be real to you, doesn't make it true.

Originally posted by Natalie Faith
That BC is a sin is the FACT that scripture in the NT uses the word sin when referring to Christians who sin, the Greek word when translated literally means "to miss the mark."
By not trusting GOD utterly I am "missing the mark." Sinning.
By using BC, I personally don't feel that I trust GOD's judgement on when to use my body to create life. I am telling Him, "I don't want kids now Lord!" Just because it's not my timing never means it's not GOD's.

WHAAAAT?? you just defined the word "sin". very nice. what if you are telling God "I don't want kids now!" and he is saying "Ok, use a condom and you don't need to worry about it for now. I'll handle it when i want you to have kids."

Originally posted by Natalie Faith
Tell me something else...Am I wrong for trusting GOD this much? Am I trusting Him too much? Can I trust GOD too much?
If I can trust GOD too much I don't see the point in having a GOD like He is.
A wise man once told me that "if you only need a little bit of GOD, you don't need GOD."

no, you may not be trusting too much, but you are implying that those who use birth control are NOT trusting God, you simply cannot do that.

[+Donny]

Ill have to agree that the act in itself is certainly not sinful. However, the view or reasoning most definitely can be. The example cited about the Levitical law of sleeping with your dead brother's wife to provide offspring for him is a perfect example of BC with the wrong intent.

I really dont see much justification in using it, but there are a few. I see this as similar to the cussing debate. In principle, there are cases where it would be permissable, but they are generally rare.

[yocreoenel]

Originally posted by me
For those of you that do believe that BC is not a sin, but that the pill could cause an abortion, would you still go/allow her to on it?

espically now that we have seen many that state and have seen the facts that "the pill' could do this?

[SnapCase]

Originally posted by yocreoenel
espically now that we have seen many that state and have seen the facts that "the pill' could do this?

Well there are other forms of birth control other than the pill.

[smitty2622]

Euchre0: it is irrelevant because fertility and children being a blessing do not pertain to birth control.

Smitty: sorry buddy it’s never irrelevant she’s got ya here where is the scripture? Let me help ya out there isn’t any. She makes some valid points. If you want to argue because you want to have sex as much as possible without consequences then go ahead but realize you don’t have Biblical backing. Oh just one more point it has been proven that Dolphins also have sex for personal enjoyment. But I doubt they have ant BC.

Peace

[barberjo]

The "fertility and children as a blessing" argument is completely irrelevant. Being fertile and believing that your children are a blessing does not preclude BC. My wife and I could have 7 kids, but we could have used BC, along with prayer and wisdom from God, to help plan when to have those kids. We would still be fruitful and we would still be able to recognize the blessings that God has given us in our 7 kids, but we would have planned our family responsibly.

That the Bible extols the virtues of fertility does not condemn the use of birth control.


John

[Chico]

this is going on like the "Is drinking O.K.", and the "Youth Groups" debates. and the same thing applies here. you are using scripture that says one thing and using it to prove a different point. yes, the bible says that children are a blessing from God. but how can you use that verse and say BC is wrong. sure, you can think it is a sin and not use it. fine by me. but you are changing scripture to fit your argument. there was a thread on how to debate and this was one of the things listed as not to do. besides, who says a couple using BC isn't intending on being blessed with children. and if God wants someone to have children, then they will have children, BC or not. God is all powerful. i think He can overcome a small pill or piece of rubber.

chris

[Wesup]

I have been praying and looking into this for a while... to me personaly this just seems like Christian logic; once prayed about and reviewed carefully... check out this quote from a protestant minister...


In 1985, I held two beliefs which convinced me that getting a vasectomy was fine. The first belief was that God nowhere in Scripture condemns the use of birth control, therefore it must be okay. The second belief was that God wants us to use"wisdom," therefore in today's economy and because of my emotional makeup it would not be wise for me to have more than two children, and I already had two. Both beliefs are unBiblical.

The first belief, that God no where in Scripture condemns the use of birth control therefore it must be okay, fails to recognize the very first command of God in Scripture. It is found in Genesis 1:28. God says, after creating man and woman, "be fruitful and multiply." This is not a suggestion - it is a command! By virtue of the fact that God commands us to be "fruitful and multiply," He speaks against birth control.

When we use birth control, we are saying, "No, I won't be 'fruitful and multiply!"' We are disobeying God and we are abrogating one of His intents for marriage (Gen. 2:24).

Some would say that this command no longer applies because the earth is full. This teaching that the earth is overpopulated or may soon be is a humanistic, pagan myth. Christians who teach this display their ignorance and sadly show once again that too often the presuppositions of popular 20th century Christianity are the same as the world's.The truth is, all the people of the world standing side by side in a four foot square area each could fit in the city of Jacksonville, Florida, leaving the rest of the world wide open. (Read The Economics and Politics of Race: An International Perspective by Thomas Sowell.)

by Rev. Matthew Trewhella

[Chico]

but God never says to what extent we must multiply. that minister, whether he recognized it or not, did exactly what God commanded. he multiplied by two. God never said it had to be more than that. maybe having the attitude of never having children is wrong, but delaying it, you can't prove that is wrong. besides, the delay, as i have mentioned before, really isn't us, it is still God. God is much more powerful than any BC we can use. by you saying that we are controlling it by using BC, then you are saying that we are controlling what God can do.

chris

[barberjo]

Originally posted by Wesup

The first belief, that God no where in Scripture condemns the use of birth control therefore it must be okay, fails to recognize the very first command of God in Scripture. It is found in Genesis 1:28. God says, after creating man and woman, "be fruitful and multiply." This is not a suggestion - it is a command! By virtue of the fact that God commands us to be "fruitful and multiply," He speaks against birth control.

This is an absurd argument. Being fruitful and multiplying does not necessarily mean "Have kids and keep having them until menopause." It doesn't mean "Have a baby, and then, when your body is ready again, have another one right away." It means having children. Scripture doesn't give us particulars on what the extent of that multiplication is.

Some measure of planning goes on in our marriages about when to have kids. Whether we use a condom or the rhythm method, or abstinence, this is birth control - and it is responsible and wise.


John

[Awzmgd117]

ok well seems like there is alot to say here but let me see if i can sum up. i'm a pharmecutical technician and we sell massive amounts of BC but it is not all for contraception it serves a wide variety of medicinal purposes, the details of which i will not bore you with. my point here being don't judge someone because they are on the pill. now as it relates to contraception, sex is not intended merely for procreation but for enjoyment with a marital partner as some one has already shown (very well to) for more on this talk to some pastors most likely the majority of them will back this view. next you assume that God cannot overcome this, if its God will you and your spouse have kids now your havin em now gosh darn it. God is bigger than that come on give Him some credit, finally our christian walk is a progressive revelation (again see a pastor for more on this) basically though it means that we are all not at the same point in our walk so to some it may seem wrong to use BC among other things (say watching R rated movies) to others it may not (and they may see no harm in watching R rated movies) my point being if your truly walkin with God then he will let you know right from wrong and there is no gray for us to debate
God Bless
Jack

[barberjo]

Also, are single people of childbearing age sinning because they are not being fruitful and multiplying?

John