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View Poll Results: Is Birth Control Sin?
Sin 18 26.87%
Righteous 51 76.12%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 67. You may not vote on this poll

 
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Unread 10-07-2002, 08:45 PM   #31
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Actually Travis, "the pill" does cause an abortion in some (if not many-- but I'm not sure about the percentage so don't hold me to it) cases.
The percentage is anywhere from 3 to 5% of the time.

Birth Control could be called the Pro-Choice movement in the church:

Quote:
it is all a matter of choice
Isn't that what abortion right activists are all about? The woman's right to choose what happens to her body? So what are we discussing here? Our right to choose? So how can I tell a woman that she can't, or shouldn't be allowed to, end a pregnancy when I as a Christian "believe" that I have the GOD-given right to choose whether or not I want to have a baby or not? Just because I am not taking a life does not mean that I am not preventing one.
You might argue that abortion is not as severe as birth control and that is true...but when I became a Christian I gave up all rights to myself to Jesus Christ. He owns me now, body and soul. I will not tell Him that I don't want His blessings. But the choice is up to you...or is it?

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Unread 10-07-2002, 08:48 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally posted by Natalie Faith
Just because I am not taking a life does not mean that I am not preventing one.
That argument holds no water, because it would lead to it being wrong to not have sex at every oppertunity possible.
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Unread 10-08-2002, 09:37 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally posted by Hamil
Well, if you hold the beilief that all sin is just as bad as any other sin, as I do and believe is Biblical,
All sin is NOT just as bad as any other sin. This is not a Biblical viewpoint, and is not put forth in the Bible. It is clear that some sin grieves God more than other sin.

All sin has the same consequence - spiritual death followed by physical death and separation from God - but that doesn't mean that all sin is equal in "badness".

Please cite scripture to demonstrate your point that all sin is equally bad.
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Unread 10-08-2002, 10:26 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally posted by Natalie Faith
The percentage is anywhere from 3 to 5% of the time.
Well, I hope I'll be with my wife a lot. So 3 to 5% is dangerous. We'll stick to condoms.

*edit. I saw the poll again, and I still can't put in a vote. There needs to be a thrid option.

Last edited by yocreoenel; 10-08-2002 at 10:30 AM.
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Unread 10-08-2002, 10:45 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bob_The_Veggie


Whats with all the people brand new to the board coming in swinging?

True, true.

Well, I guess I did pretty much the exact same thing when I joined, except it was in the "Christian Goth" thread. And I took a swipe at Travis, not you. Hehe. Something about being new just makes a person hostile I guess.

I think the "birth control is OK" side has been pretty well defended.... I'd like to so a non-b.c.er answer some of Travis and Jonathan's (bobtheveggie) posts. So far they have been ignoring their points and saying variations of the same thing.
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Unread 10-08-2002, 10:50 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally posted by meatfinger
I'd like to so a non-b.c.er answer some of Travis and Jonathan's (bobtheveggie) posts.
aww, what about me? i've been saying the same thing as travis, mostly.
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Unread 10-08-2002, 11:26 AM   #37
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think about this...

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but when I became a Christian I gave up all rights to myself to Jesus Christ. He owns me now, body and soul. I will not tell Him that I don't want His blessings. But the choice is up to you...or is it? [/B]
you're forgetting something really important here:

I Cor 7:3-5 -
"The husband should fulfill his marital duty to his wife, and likewise the wife to her husband. The wife's body does not belong to her alone but also to her husband. In the same way, the husband's body does not belong to him alone but also to his wife. Do not deprive each other except by mutual consent and for a time, so that you may devote yourselves to prayer. Then come together again so that Satan will not tempt you because of your lack of self-control."

so when you are married, you don't just belong to God (or yourself, which you realize), but also to your spouse.

Quote:
I have never heard a non-selfish biblical reason that supported birth control.
also, someone asked how BC could glorify God. i think the answer to these comments is that, with birth control, husbands and wives can feel more free to fulfill their duties to each other and please each other even when they know having a child is not an option. some of you might say that God would only give a couple a child if that was His will, but that is a cop-out. humans have responsibility in God's creation, and we can be wise about having children at appropriate times - and prayer seems like the best way to discern that. if God is leading you to have a child, and you can't see why the timing is right, then trust Him anyway and go for it. if He's not, then use BC, fulfill your marital duties, and enjoy God's great gift of such an intimate relationship.

it's a great thing that God involves us in this decision. without BC, the only way a couple might know in advance of getting pregnant would be a voice from God. basically, it could happen any time they had sex. with BC we have the ability to prepare ourselves financially and relationally for raising children. thus, if you feel like you need more growth before you would make a good parent, then you can responsibly wait to have children while still having sex. yeah, there's always a chance that BC can fail, and i'd say just leave that for God to handle.



Quote:
He was willing to sleep with her but not allow her to concieve. He was using and dishonoring her. This went WAY deeper than some law about carrying on your line.
so do you think BC for a married couple is dishonoring to each other? i agree that Onan dishonored her. but it is not the same when married couple, instructed by God to have sex, mutually agrees that they are not ready for a child

also, Hamil, i think you are implying the same sovereignty of God argument (that you quickly shot down, though it was a joke) within your points. you think couples should carelessly have sex even when it wouldn't be wise to have a child, and hope that God won't give them a child until they are ready? scripture gives no reason to test God like this when we have more responsible alternatives. the burden is on you, i think, to defend this position.

these are just some responses - not my full argument, but it should clear up some things.

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Unread 10-08-2002, 11:40 AM   #38
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Travis: That argument holds no water, because it would lead to it being wrong to not have sex at every oppertunity possible.

Smitty: yea I tried to get that one past the wife, no dice she wouldnít fall for it either. :kgrin: Just a little info for you younger people when you get married if your wife is on the pill and you donít want to have kids then donít have sex while your wife is on antibiotics:keek: they weaken the effect of the pill and she may get pregnant. I have three nephews because of this so I know itís true.


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Unread 10-08-2002, 12:07 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally posted by smitty2622
yea I tried to get that one past the wife, no dice she wouldn?t fall for it either. :kgrin:
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Unread 10-08-2002, 05:52 PM   #40
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The reason, most likely that no one is replying to any of the "points" that have been made by pro-BC's is because we that do not believe BC is GOD's desire for our lives, are attacked on a daily basis by other members of the Body of Christ for holding the belief that GOD is SO sovereign and so in CONTROL that we give Him, the Author and Giver and Creator of life, the CHOICE as to when and where and how many children He wants for our lives.
It is frustrating to hear the same arguments out of Christians day in and day out that we are the wrong ones and as some one recently called me and my husband, the "idiots" for not "understanding" the birds and the bees.
Everyone will have an opinion on this subject, and most of the time a desire to share it. However, when saying whether it is sin or righteous I must say that my conviction is that it is sin. You will never hear me say that you are not a Christian because you disagree.
I watched a video today on abortion and the woman that was speaking mentioned that she was glad Christians don't have as many abortions as non-Christians and that we reproduce more than non-Christians, because we will have more people to share the Gospel with the world... yet we prevent birth or the possibility of it by stopping conception...
I am going to stop posting here because I get this everyday in my face. That is upsetting enough. I really hope none of you thought I was judging you.
May the Lord bless you and keep you!
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Unread 10-08-2002, 06:01 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally posted by Natalie Faith
The reason, most likely that no one is replying to any of the "points" that have been made by pro-BC's is because we that do not believe BC is GOD's desire for our lives, are attacked on a daily basis by other members of the Body of Christ for holding the belief that GOD is SO sovereign and so in CONTROL that we give Him, the Author and Giver and Creator of life, the CHOICE as to when and where and how many children He wants for our lives.
Well I think that God is so sovereign and in control that I don't have to "give Him the choice." He already has it.

People don't attack you for having your belief that contraception is not God's plan for your life, they attack you for accusing others of sin without biblical backing, because they use it. And you are wrong to be doing so.
Quote:
Originally posted by Natalie Faith
It is frustrating to hear the same arguments out of Christians day in and day out that we are the wrong ones and as some one recently called me and my husband, the "idiots" for not "understanding" the birds and the bees.
Well it's probably just as frustrating to hear you tell me that it is a sin without biblical proof time and time again in the same way without ever addressing any of my points.
Quote:
Originally posted by Natalie Faith
However, when saying whether it is sin or righteous I must say that my conviction is that it is sin. You will never hear me say that you are not a Christian because you disagree.
Irrelevant. You still accuse others of sin without biblical basis. Just because God convicted you that you should not use it, (He may or may not have but I'll go along with it) does not mean that it is a sin for others.
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Unread 10-08-2002, 06:22 PM   #42
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I'm not going to say whether its a sin or not, but somethings to think about...

I'm trying to understand why we use birth control in the first place...

If God is so sovereign that He'll give you a kid if He wants you to have one even when you are on birth control....

couldn't you say that He is also so sovereign that he won't give you a kid if He doesn't want you to have one even when you are NOT on birth control?

Why use birth control in the first place? Are you afraid God will bless you with a child?

Are you afraid that God will give you something you can't handle?

Are you maybe putting your wants ahead of maybe what God might want?
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Unread 10-08-2002, 06:40 PM   #43
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extremeguy007,
that was a good argument: well constructed and well handled.

For those of you that do believe that BC is not a sin, but that the pill could cause an abortion, would you still go/allow her to on it?
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Unread 10-08-2002, 07:01 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally posted by Enobmurt
I'm trying to understand why we use birth control in the first place...
Because they might not want a child at that moment, whatever the reason. Could be that they are broke and think that the child deserves better and do not wish to be irresponsible. Could be that the parents have AIDS and do not want to give that to a child.
Quote:
Originally posted by Enobmurt
If God is so sovereign that He'll give you a kid if He wants you to have one even when you are on birth control....

couldn't you say that He is also so sovereign that he won't give you a kid if He doesn't want you to have one even when you are NOT on birth control?
Let me show you what this logic is like:

"If God wants you to die you will die. If God does not want you to die, you will not die. Therefore, let's all put on black and go lay down on a freeway at night."
Quote:
Originally posted by Enobmurt
Why use birth control in the first place? Are you afraid God will bless you with a child?
You already asked that and I already answered it (in this post).
Quote:
Originally posted by Enobmurt
Are you afraid that God will give you something you can't handle?
As you said, God can do it anyway if he really wants to.
Quote:
Originally posted by Enobmurt
Are you maybe putting your wants ahead of maybe what God might want?
As you said, God can do it anyway if he really wants to.
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Unread 10-08-2002, 07:12 PM   #45
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i think we should stop wasting our time on this thread. there will never be any new arguments against BC (if there ever were any!), so not much new can enter this discussion. we've already responded to any reasons against BC, and those against it have not responded to our points, so don't post unless you have something different.
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