[M3OPPA]

Hey all,

I've got a question... our praise band has been trying to "create" our sound recently and we're running into a wall with the keyboard. I own a Korg X5 synthesizer hooked into a D/I into a very nice PA system. We're currently *ALWAYS* using: "LayerPiano" which is string layers and a piano sound if you press the keys down harder...

What other ways do you suggest we use this to create an awesome hard rock heart thumping sound? We like Sonicflood's sound... any ideas?

Keep up the good work.
I adore you.

[Nate]

Originally posted by M3OPPA
What other ways do you suggest we use this to create an awesome hard rock heart thumping sound? We like Sonicflood's sound... any ideas?

First of all.... strings and pianos are not typical hard rock, heart thumping instruments. I'd suggest trying some synth leads... maybe try to find one that has "saw" or "sync" in it's name. Those usually tend to be "harder." When using leads, it's best to play melodically rather than rhythmically; basically, play like a lead guitarist would, rather than simply "strumming" the chords of the song. I use synth leads on songs like Forever and The Wonderful Cross (both by Chris Tomlin). Also, synth pads are great fun and can add a lot. Play a few chords on as many synth pad patches as you can find, make sure you hold the chords out for a few seconds too. Most pads have some sort of effect applied to them that will alter the sound after a certain amount of time. Some go so far with the effects that they take on a "pulsating" feel. These are the kinds of things you are looking for. See if you can find a nice thick sounding pad with lots of movement. When you're using pad sounds, it's usually best to just pick a nice voicing for each chord, and just hold the chord out for it's full length. Don't play a lot of different notes, basically just the chords. Synth pads work well for just about any song, but are particularly effective for more "worshipful" sounding songs (sorry, couldn't think of a better word.) I'm talking about songs like We Fall Down, You Are My King, Here I Am To Worship, etc.

A couple other things you might try:

Organs are not typical "hard rock" instruments, but they are one of my favorite instruments for just about any other kind of music.... especially praise and worship. Cycle through your organ patches until you find a few that you like. Try to find one that sounds very full (it may even be called something like "Full Drawbars", etc) and a few that sound thinner but still have a good sound. The full ones are usually best for harder, up-tempo, jump-up-and-down-and-praise-the-Lord kind of songs; The Happy Song, Undignified, and Every Move I Make come to mind. The less full ones are usually better suited for more mellow or more conservative songs; stuff like I Could Sing Of Your Love Forever and Shout To The Lord. When you're playing an organ patch, you can usually do just about anything you want. Percussive, rhythmic playing usually sounds good; as does simply holding out the chords with a few melodic riffs in-between.

Electric pianos are a lot of fun too. They are probably my favorite kind of patches. Look for some nice warm sounding Rhodes patches, and then see if you can find some Wurly's as well. The Rhodes patches usually sound a lot thicker than the Wurly's, so they are better suited for songs where you are trying to "fill up" the sound. The Wurly's are my favorite though, they sound really good when played rhythmically, and are especially fun for harder, more up-tempo songs. I usually use Wurly patches on songs like Be Glorified, That's Why We Praise Him, and Trading My Sorrows. I usually find that I use the Rhodes patches for slower songs, such as I Could Sing Of Your Love Forever, Hungry (Falling On My Knees), and You Are My King.

Well.... I hope some of this helps you. If you have any questions about any of what I referred to, feel free to ask!

In His love,
Nate

[JTH]

Going a little further on this topic, does anyone have experience/suggestions for combining keyboard with guitar in leading worship. It it best to take turns playing rhythm. I'm a guitar player, so I'm just trying to find out the best way to incorporate a keyboard, so there is no sound conflicts.

Jason

[Nate]

I don't think you necessarily have to "take turns" playing rhythm. I think as long as both of you can hear what the other one is playing and follow along with the basic rhythm, it should sound fine. What you want to avoid is having the keyboardist playing one rhythm, and the guitarist playing a completely different one. Now, occasionally different rhythms can sound good together, but usually (with inexperienced players) it just sounds like mud. If you decide that you don't want to use similar rhythms, try this: Have one of the two (keyboardist and guitarist) play a very simple rhythm, such as straight quarter notes; then have the other play something that is syncopated, with lots of emphasis on the offbeat.

Hope this helps!

In His love,
Nate

[Ryosuke]

i totally agree with that. It can work out well even if the keyboardist and the guitarist aren't playing on the exact same beat, and sometimes it MAY sound better than otherwise. Usually one should try incorporating alternative beats to each other. The thing is, once you've got it right, you don't notice much about the beat and even if u somehow drop the beat or do something wrong, u can get back on track if your partner is still on beat.

[guitarfan01]

Originally posted by KeyboardFreak
Organs are not typical "hard rock" instruments, but they are one of my favorite instruments for just about any other kind of music.... especially praise and worship. Cycle through your organ patches until you find a few that you like. Try to find one that sounds very full (it may even be called something like "Full Drawbars", etc) and a few that sound thinner but still have a good sound. The full ones are usually best for harder, up-tempo, jump-up-and-down-and-praise-the-Lord kind of songs; The Happy Song, Undignified, and Every Move I Make come to mind. The less full ones are usually better suited for more mellow or more conservative songs; stuff like I Could Sing Of Your Love Forever and Shout To The Lord. When you're playing an organ patch, you can usually do just about anything you want. Percussive, rhythmic playing usually sounds good; as does simply holding out the chords with a few melodic riffs in-between.

If you need an example of hard rock organ playing, check out Deep Purple's albums Purpendicular and Total Abandon. Organist Jon Lord often sticks a distortion pedal on his "out" line or plugs into a Marshall head to get a screaming, hard-edged sound. But I would also like to second the motion about percussive, rhythmic playing, it can sometimes sound almost like a guitar being muted strummed w/ wah (as in Jimi Hendrix's 'Voodoo Child').

Galen

[Unicorn Mustang]

What we often do is use three primary sounds.

1) A clean piano, nice sounding and such, with a good amount of reverb. Take that then add it to very high riffs (like in All About Love by Steven Curtis Chapman, or for a few select moments in Where Are You Going? by Dave Matthews Band)

2) A B3 or something similar to that. B3s are used in a whole lot of songs, crossing genres. Some people will hold out a I V I (depending on the chord), bracing the guitars and such. On certain songs I'm sure you could use strings or a synth sound, depending on what sounds good/mood/lights/snacks etc. Another way (which I prefer) is how old Caedmon's Call albums use it. Caedmon's Call organ stuff is pretty good if you want to check that use of an organ out.

3) Synths/Strings. Actually I don't use Synths/Strings that much because our electric guitar player has one of those 13 pin Roland thingies (the exact name escapes my mind, obvious). But on certain songs if he's playing lead stuff, I'll thrown in some strings/synth. Though usually I'll just use the technic mentioned in no. 1.

That's what I do personally, I'm sure it would sound better other ways, but I'm really too lazy to check out anything else. Of course, everything I just said could be wrong too.

P.S. I just thought of something else. If you're looking for that edgier feel, try that song by Evinecince (oh gosh did I butcher that name) that they did with the 12 Stones guy. The strings in there fit, it's edgy, it's fast, it's hard...but then again they're leaning toward gothic styled music.