[passinthru]

ok I started to respond but I'm too angry and can't really hear what you're saying right now. so I'll try tomorrow k?

katie+

[Nate]

Originally posted by passinthru
ok I started to respond but I'm too angry and can't really hear what you're saying right now. so I'll try tomorrow k?

Ok.

[Mithrandir]

Ok, I think I want to try to elaborate on what I was saying.

Here's what I think:
-- depression is a valid, serious medical/psychological/chemical condition
-- depression (and the degree to which it is present in our society) is evidence of the sinfulness and resulting brokenness in our society and of the reality of satan and his ability to lie to and attempt to destry children of God.
-- depression is *in some cases* - certainly not all- an attention getting mechanism, a crutch, an excuse, etc... but even in these cases we need to remember a) that it is evidence of the person's brokenness and need for Christ's love (and ours) and b) that we are called to show the compassion of Christ and that it is not our place to judge.
-- to deny the validity of depression as a medical condition, or to judge or be critical of someone for where they're at psychologically is to fail to show the compassion of Christ... if we look at Christ's life, He acknowledged the need for healing in those He encountered, and He was compassionate- not judging or critical- of all sorts of situations that He encountered... He should be our model... and He healed... and likewise, we should point others towards Christ and His healing...
-- I firmly believe that depression is the work of satan in attempt to destroy the children of God. When a beautiful child of God is convinced (or struggles with believing) that he/she is worthless (or anything close) this is the power of darkness and satan's lies capatilizing on the brokenness and pain that comes from living in this world. Because depression is, ultimately, spiritual darkness, it cannot be overcome without the light of Christ and His healing hand. I firmly believe that. Even so, depression is still a very real medical/psychological/chemical condition and must be treated as such... both the spiritual and medical components are necessary for healing... neither can (except perhaps by a sovereign act of God) heal a person fully without the other...

And I want to add that the things I'm saying are based on quite a bit of experience in interacting with people who are suicidal and/or depressed... when i said that it *can be* (not is) an excuse/crutch, that's because I've seen it as such... and even so, that doesn't change our call to love unconditionally, be comassionate, minister Christ's healing...

I must also say that I have seen cases (or rather a case) where a depressed person was, imho, far better off prior to being treated medically/psychologically/chemically for depression... which is not to say that the med/psych aspect of it is not valid or necessary... but to say that medicine does not by any means have all the answers, and they can do more harm than good...

And above all, I believe that nearly all of us- depressed or not- need to acknowledge our brokenness and need for Christ's healing, and cry out for His healing in our lives. To try to fight the darkness in our lives w/o crying out to Him is foolishness.

That's 'bout all I've got to say...

[Travis]

faith is part of the cure... i don't believe that someone who struggles with depression will be able to find victory and freedom without Christ... and i think that the tendency in our culture is to look towards the psyhochological and medical to provide the answers... but i think that only God's healing touch can truly bring freedom and victory

Obviously God could use psychological or medical treatments.
And oftentimes the mental problem is actually a physical problem with the brain, no less physical than a hangnail or a heart attack. The next time you are sick, just have some faith and avoid the doctor, ok?

[gymnast_girl_27]

I must say that I pretty much agree with Eggy and Nate... don't get upset at me Katie lol.

I will say this though- everyone is different, every situation is different- nobody can just be classified into a group or something... okay that didn't make sense, but I hope you know what I mean.

okay the original question:

first off, I've cut myself before, I'll be honest about that.

as mentioned... one reason I did it is that I was dealing with so much emotional pain that I wanted physical pain to kind of take my mind off of the emotional pain

some people cut to "punish themselves"

for some it is a form of passive suicide...


also, typically I cut myself in places nobody can see... only on an arm or something if it's the dead of winter and I'm in sweaters all the time. lol. so for me, it was something I did not want anybody to know about because I was so ashamed of it. but yes, some people do it openly as a cry for help or attention. In fact, I think that happens a LOT.

I'll probably post again later but for now I need to gather my thoughts...

hugs and love! -courtney

[gymnast_girl_27]

Originally posted by Travis
Obviously God could use psychological or medical treatments.
And oftentimes the mental problem is actually a physical problem with the brain, no less physical than a hangnail or a heart attack. The next time you are sick, just have some faith and avoid the doctor, ok?

oh and I agree with that too

[Travis]

Originally posted by Eggy
Absolutely. I agree 100%, Travis. But that doesn't mean that we should look only to medicine for the answers... or only to God...

True I think looking to God through prayer and also looking for God to perhaps help though medicine are good ideas.

[gymnast_girl_27]

oh I have to say one more thing!

if anyone out there is thinking about cutting for any reason...

don't.

it's not worth it.

[danalyn]

Originally posted by gymnast_girl_27
oh I have to say one more thing!

if anyone out there is thinking about cutting for any reason...

don't.

it's not worth it.

You're so right.

[danalyn]

Originally posted by Eggy
b) faith is part of the cure... i don't believe that someone who struggles with depression will be able to find victory and freedom without Christ... and i think that the tendency in our culture is to look towards the psyhochological and medical to provide the answers... but i think that only God's healing touch can truly bring freedom and victory... but that doens't change the fact that there's a medical, chemical condition involved that needs to be treated medically and psychologically and that those components are necessary too... see what i'm saying?

I've been there ((obviously)) and I have to agree with this.

[passinthru]

ok now that I'm not being hotheaded let's see if I can do this without yelling and screaming and saying all sorts of stuff I don't mean.

ok..my main issue is with what Nate has been saying about how faith is all you need to "cure" depression.

I'm gonna take a bit and collect my thoughts on this cause I don't want to come across as saying that faith has no role cause it does. but I don't want to say that it isn't medical cause it is.

so I"ll be back.
Katie+

[Nate]

Originally posted by passinthru
ok..my main issue is with what Nate has been saying about how faith is all you need to "cure" depression.

Did I ever say that faith was all you need? not that I recall *goes to see*

[Laceratus]

I just wanna say that I personaly have never had issues about cutting (well, exept my wrists, but that was for ultimate relief, not temporary) but it is as real as heck.

I dunno really what helps with depression...for me it is music, but it that does not help everybody. I went to a Christian counsellor that supposedly has a 95% success rate...well, it did nothing for me. Drugs (i was a substance abuser) help for a temporary time...but when you come down, you feel worse than you did before the high.
So, maybe I'll shut up considering I am contributing nothing.

[passinthru]

ok methinks I can do this....

ok depression is an illness. period. due to the nature of this illness it doens't just affect your body but it also affects your emotions and your spiritual life.
It's not just a bad mood or a bad day. Somewhere round here I have a self-diagnosis exercise that can help you to determine if you are depressed or just having a down. (this shouldn't in anyway be taken as an authoritative thing it needs to be reviewed by a medical professional it's just a tool that can be helpful)


See it has been my experience that until the chemical side of things is sorted out, faith doesn't do much sides keep you alive and make you feel guilty. Once the chemicals are sorted out however then faith plays a larger role, as does counselling. I've done just counselling for awhile and I had at one point done just meds. It wasn't until they were put together though that it actuially started to work.

so no Nate, you can't just trust God. That's the same thing as telling someone with diabeties to not take their insulin cause that shows a lack of faith.

Katie+

[Nate]

Originally posted by Travis
The next time you are sick, just have some faith and avoid the doctor, ok?

I find it pretty ironic that this is basically what everyone who was healed by Jesus did.

Matthew 9:22
But Jesus turning and seeing her said, "Daughter, take courage; your faith has made you well." At once the woman was made well.

Mark 10:52 And Jesus said to him, "Go; your faith has made you well." Immediately he regained his sight and began following Him on the road.

Luke 17:19
And He said to him, "Stand up and go; your faith has made you well."

Matthew 8:5-10, 13
And when Jesus entered Capernaum, a centurion came to Him, imploring Him, and saying, "Lord, my servant is lying paralyzed at home, fearfully tormented." Jesus said to him, "I will come and heal him." But the centurion said, "Lord, I am not worthy for You to come under my roof, but just say the word, and my servant will be healed. "For I also am a man under authority, with soldiers under me; and I say to this one, 'Go!' and he goes, and to another, 'Come!' and he comes, and to my slave, 'Do this!' and he does it." Now when Jesus heard this, He marveled and said to those who were following, "Truly I say to you, I have not found such great faith with anyone in Israel.
And Jesus said to the centurion, "Go; it shall be done for you as you have believed." And the servant was healed that very moment.

Nothing more needs to be said; faith heals.

James 5:15a
and the prayer offered in faith will restore the one who is sick, and the Lord will raise him up...


Now that I think about this a little more, I'm going to basically go back to my original statement. The cure for depression is faith in God. Whatever God decides to do to heal a person of whatever kind of depression they may have, I believe it will require faith on their part. (note: This is not to say that medical or pyschological attention is worthless; but rather to say that they are worthless without faith in God.)