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Unread 08-12-2021, 05:53 AM   #16
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This isn't the same article that I had read before but I think that it addresses what I was thinking about Jesus view on polygamy.

https://blog.logos.com/does-jesus-co...t-on-polygamy/

"When the Pharisees were questioning Jesus about divorce, he took the opportunity to set them straight about polygamy, too. Jesus used both sets of arguments used by other Jews. He quoted the key verse used by Qumran Jews (Gen 1:27) and even said this was what happened “at the beginning of creation” (Mark 10:6, which presumably reminded his listeners that Qumran Jews called this “the foundation of creation”). Then he quoted the verse preferred by Jews outside Palestine—Genesis 2:24—including the additional word “two” (Mark 10:8;_Matt 19:5). By deliberately using both arguments, Jesus emphasized that he agreed with those Jews who taught monogamy, contrary to the Pharisees."

To me we are to strive for perfection. That is the biblical standard. I lump divorce and polygamy in the same category. They are both a sign that we are living in a fallen world. I am not one to condemn people for such decisions. Life is just hard. But neither am I going to say either one is a good thing.

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Unread 08-12-2021, 09:37 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by Giga Hertz View Post
Is there an instance in the Bible where someone having multiple wives hasn't led to major drama?
an odd question, given most people mentioned in the bible had major drama, regardless of marital status. it appears that was their normal behavior back then. having multiple wives doesn’t seem to have been the cause of major drama, whereas adopting the religious practices of others frequently was.
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Unread 08-12-2021, 09:48 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by tlj009 View Post
This isn't the same article that I had read before but I think that it addresses what I was thinking about Jesus view on polygamy.

https://blog.logos.com/does-jesus-co...t-on-polygamy/

"When the Pharisees were questioning Jesus about divorce, he took the opportunity to set them straight about polygamy, too. Jesus used both sets of arguments used by other Jews. He quoted the key verse used by Qumran Jews (Gen 1:27) and even said this was what happened “at the beginning of creation” (Mark 10:6, which presumably reminded his listeners that Qumran Jews called this “the foundation of creation”). Then he quoted the verse preferred by Jews outside Palestine—Genesis 2:24—including the additional word “two” (Mark 10:8;_Matt 19:5). By deliberately using both arguments, Jesus emphasized that he agreed with those Jews who taught monogamy, contrary to the Pharisees."

To me we are to strive for perfection. That is the biblical standard. I lump divorce and polygamy in the same category. They are both a sign that we are living in a fallen world. I am not one to condemn people for such decisions. Life is just hard. But neither am I going to say either one is a good thing.
one interpretation, sure. given Jesus doesn’t even mention polygamy, it’s a stretch to say what he meant. neither here nor there, pertaining to the topic of purity culture, but it’s factual to say that polygamy was not clearly eradicated by christ or paul or early church leaders or Martin Luther. the opinion that God’s ideal was one man plus one woman is just that - an opinion. don’t get me wrong here - I am in a committed monogamous relationship . but I have a beef in people claiming a biblical world view based on opinions and cultural/personal preferences.
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Unread 08-12-2021, 04:02 PM   #19
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an odd question, given most people mentioned in the bible had major drama, regardless of marital status. it appears that was their normal behavior back then. having multiple wives doesn’t seem to have been the cause of major drama, whereas adopting the religious practices of others frequently was.
I probably should have clarified: relationship drama. Like, there were instances that it was encouraged, but I can only think of the thing where if your brother's wife died. Polygamy seemed to be out of necessity for propagating Israel and protecting vulnerable widows.

But all the instances where it's drawn attention to someone having lots of wives, usually their drama or undoing has been because of it.
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Unread 08-12-2021, 04:15 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by Giga Hertz View Post
I probably should have clarified: relationship drama. Like, there were instances that it was encouraged, but I can only think of the thing where if your brother's wife died. Polygamy seemed to be out of necessity for propagating Israel and protecting vulnerable widows.

But all the instances where it's drawn attention to someone having lots of wives, usually their drama or undoing has been because of it.
makes more sense, thanks for clarifying. it's kind of an argument from absence - how many people throughout history - Jews or Christians - have had happy polygamous marriages? I have no idea. similarly, how many have had bad experiences of drama? I also have no idea. we have at best a hand full of people in the bible who were both polygamous and had "drama". to be fair, just about everyone in the bible had drama, regardless of their marriage arrangement. that to say, it's not necessarily causational every single time. there were probably just as many people who had "drama" because they adopted the religious beliefs of their wives, which was a bigger no-no than the actual practice of having multiple wives.



all that aside, the bottom line is the one-man-one-woman scenario isn't a black-and-white "best case scenario" as determined by the bible. monogamy is a societal construct that we live by today as a result of Roman influence - we could just as easily have been born in another culture at another time where it was considered normal. it's a modern bias we have -even Martin Luther couldn't find a biblical reason to speak out against polygamy.


again, I'll clarify that I am in a happy monogomous marriage and have no desire to live otherwise. but I don't see this as a black-and-white issue from the pages of the bible. I also personally know one dear couple from my now-ex-baptist-church who are polyamorous. I can find no convincing biblical or moral issue with polyamory. it's not my cup of tea at all, but to each their own.
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Unread 08-12-2021, 07:54 PM   #21
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I believe purity culture has done more harm than good, overall.
I'm not interested in sharing personal experience with it on the public internet.
Linda Kay Klein's book referenced above is very good.
Since some of this thread is drifting towards hinting at questions of whether same-sex marriage is appropriate, I'll recommend Matthew Vines' lecture The Gay Debate and his book God and the Gay Christian (an expansion of the lecture). If folks want to discuss that in more detail, another thread is probably appropriate.
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Unread 08-12-2021, 08:03 PM   #22
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I believe purity culture has done more harm than good, overall.
I'm not interested in sharing personal experience with it on the public internet.
Linda Kay Klein's book referenced above is very good.
Since some of this thread is drifting towards hinting at questions of whether same-sex marriage is appropriate, I'll recommend Matthew Vines' lecture The Gay Debate and his book God and the Gay Christian (an expansion of the lecture). If folks want to discuss that in more detail, another thread is probably appropriate.
good insight, mtlmouth; Klein knocked it out of the park in this evening's Courage 365 interview, can find a replay of it online on Facebook. I find it interesting when she mentioned that some symptoms of Sexual Abuse crop up as an exposure to Purity Culture. mental health professionals are painfully uninformed about CPTSD, Purity Culture, undue influence / cults / evangelical Christianity, etc. my teenage daughter and I went to see Klein in Harrisburg when she was doing a book tour about Pure; her book is pretty fantastic.

my wife and I were invited to speak to a panel of grad school therapists-in-training about our experiences with religious abuse, it was encouraging to see some therapists making strides towards wanting to learn more about the evangelical bubble that is in many ways causing more harm than good. unless you've been inside the bubble, it's remarkably hard to get others to understand.

it does seem we're tiptoing around same-sex marriage, which is indeed a whole other thread.
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