Go Back   Christian Guitar Forum > Deeper Issues > Theology
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Arcade Mark Forums Read

Reply
Thread Tools Display Modes
Unread 07-23-2021, 10:47 AM   #1
Leboman
I Saw That
Administrator
 
Leboman's Avatar
 

Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 37,407
paid
Work Out Your Salvation

Don't know what kind (if any) response this will get but I've been teaching through Philippians on Wednesday nights and we came across this section this past week.

12 Therefore, my dear friends, just as you have always obeyed, so now, not only in my presence but even more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. 13 For it is God who is working in you both to will and to work according to his good purpose. 14 Do everything without grumbling and arguing, 15 so that you may be blameless and pure, children of God who are faultless in a crooked and perverted generation, among whom you shine like stars in the world, 16 by holding firm to the word of life. Then I can boast in the day of Christ that I didn’t run or labor for nothing. 17 But even if I am poured out as a drink offering on the sacrificial service of your faith, I am glad and rejoice with all of you. 18 In the same way you should also be glad and rejoice with me.

Philippians 2:12-18 (CSB)


I am just curious as to how ya'll have heard that last part of verse 12 explained. One of the commentaries I have been using suggests that it is meant to be understood in the context of church unity, which Paul has been discussing. The author also suggests that "salvation" may not be the best translation for the Greek there. I confess that I do not know Greek but the word there is σωτηρίαν and (according to the author) can also be rendered "preservation" or "welfare" depending upon the context. I admit that makes sense but I don't know that I have ever heard it explained that way. It would definitely remove any temptation to elevate our own works in the act of salvation.

Thoughts? I am especially interested in what our resident Pauline scholar has to say. What say ye Dr. Thrunk?

__________________
Jesus told him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life.
No one comes to the Father except through me."

John 14:6 (CSB)

YouTube Stuff
Lee's Sermons
Blog

Last edited by Leboman; 07-23-2021 at 12:47 PM.
Leboman is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Unread 07-23-2021, 12:44 PM   #2
Leboman
I Saw That
Administrator
 
Leboman's Avatar
 

Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 37,407
paid
Came across this while reading today.


One central theme ties these verses together. The Philippians were to make salvation work in their lives. It will be helpful to determine the nature of the word “salvation” and whether this refers to the church at large or the individuals within it.

Salvation was central to Paul’s theology. Normally the word has its full soteriological sense of spiritual deliverance from sin and the world. Paul described salvation as a past event (Eph 2:8–9) and as a future consummation (Rom 13:11). Here he spoke of working out salvation. Many recent commentators have opted for the meaning “well being,” as a better translation for sōtēria (“salvation,” NIV) although this is highly unlikely. Personal salvation brings with it responsibilities which Paul related to Christians’ obedience. The responsibility was to live in accord with their salvation, letting the implications of their relationship with Christ transform their social relationships. Paul really meant, in the first place, that they were to act like Christians.


Melick, R. R. (1991). Philippians, Colossians, Philemon (Vol. 32, pp. 109–110). Nashville: Broadman & Holman Publishers.



That helps a little...I think.

__________________
Jesus told him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life.
No one comes to the Father except through me."

John 14:6 (CSB)

YouTube Stuff
Lee's Sermons
Blog
Leboman is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-23-2021, 01:29 PM   #3
Leboman
I Saw That
Administrator
 
Leboman's Avatar
 

Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 37,407
paid
Don't know what made me look it up but it looks as if they are trying to explain what Paul means here.


12 Dear friends, you always followed my instructions when I was with you. And now that I am away, it is even more important. Work hard to show the results of your salvation, obeying God with deep reverence and fear. 13 For God is working in you, giving you the desire and the power to do what pleases him.

Philippians 2:12-12 (NLT)
__________________
Jesus told him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life.
No one comes to the Father except through me."

John 14:6 (CSB)

YouTube Stuff
Lee's Sermons
Blog
Leboman is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-24-2021, 01:21 PM   #4
Homer Simpson
D'oh!
 

Joined: Apr 2002
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 9,201
paid
I mean, the tension you're referring to goes away if you affirm the soteriology believed by every Christian before Martin Luther and a particular antinomian interpretation of what faith is - the kind of interpretation that proof-texts Ephesians 2:8-9 and conveniently leaves off v. 10.

God desires our salvation, but we have to co-operate with Him - He won't save us against our will. This is one of the primary problems with Calvinism.

https://blogs.ancientfaith.com/ortho...-of-monergism/
Homer Simpson is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-24-2021, 07:58 PM   #5
dogfood
طعام الكلب
 
dogfood's Avatar
 

Joined: Feb 2004
Location: Aotearoa
Posts: 14,838
Send a message via MSN to dogfood
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leboman View Post
Don't know what made me look it up but it looks as if they are trying to explain what Paul means here.


12 Dear friends, you always followed my instructions when I was with you. And now that I am away, it is even more important. Work hard to show the results of your salvation, obeying God with deep reverence and fear. 13 For God is working in you, giving you the desire and the power to do what pleases him.

Philippians 2:12-12 (NLT)
It would be good if Paul showed up today to show us what he means.
__________________
dogfood is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 08-01-2021, 07:16 PM   #6
tlj009
Registered User
 

Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 3,612
I took it to mean that we should tend to ouselves and not worry about other people. Cast out the beam in your own eye kind of statement. Or perhaps with his own master he will stand or fall.
tlj009 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 08-02-2021, 06:46 AM   #7
Leboman
I Saw That
Administrator
 
Leboman's Avatar
 

Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 37,407
paid
Quote:
Originally Posted by tlj009 View Post
I took it to mean that we should tend to ouselves and not worry about other people. Cast out the beam in your own eye kind of statement. Or perhaps with his own master he will stand or fall.
While I do believe we should worry about ourselves first, I don't think the context is suggesting that here.

The key is with the word translated "work out" and how it should be understood. I don't know Greek so I have to rely on those who do.

It's the word κατεργάζεσθε (katergazesthe) and the given definition is "work out" or "bring about" and it can either be positive or negative.

I tend to agree with Homer Simpson here. We have to cooperate with God and see it out until the end.



source: https://biblehub.com/greek/2716.htm
__________________
Jesus told him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life.
No one comes to the Father except through me."

John 14:6 (CSB)

YouTube Stuff
Lee's Sermons
Blog
Leboman is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:08 AM.