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Unread 04-14-2018, 10:05 PM   #1
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Trump orders strikes on Syria

I'm almost afraid of what people here might think about this, but here goes.

U.S., allies target chemical weapon sites with strikes in Syria | CBC News

The heads of the three largest Christian groups in Syria, the Greek Orthodox Patriarchate of Antioch, the Jacobite Orthodox, and the Melkite Catholics, have condemned the attack.

Quote:
A Statement Issued by the Patriarchates of Antioch and all the East for the Greek Orthodox, Syrian Orthodox, and Greek-Melkite Catholic
Damascus, 14 April 2018


God is with us; Understand all ye nations and submit yourselves!


We, the Patriarchs: John X, Greek Orthodox Patriarch of Antioch and all the East, Ignatius Aphrem II, Syrian Orthodox Patriarch of Antioch and all the East, and Joseph Absi, Melkite-Greek Catholic Patriarch of Antioch, Alexandria, and Jerusalem, condemn and denounce the brutal aggression that took place this morning against our precious country Syria by the USA, France and the UK, under the allegations that the Syrian government has used chemical weapons. We raise our voices to affirm the following:
  1. This brutal aggression is a clear violation of the international laws and the UN Charter, because it is an unjustified assault on a sovereign country, member of the UN.
  2. It causes us great pain that this assault comes from powerful countries to which Syria did not cause any harm in any way.
  3. The allegations of the USA and other countries that the Syrian army is using chemical weapons and that Syria is a country that owns and uses this kind of weapon, is a claim that is unjustified and unsupported by sufficient and clear evidence.
  4. The timing of this unjustified aggression against Syria, when the independent International Commission for Inquiry was about to start its work in Syria, undermines of the work of this commission.
  5. This brutal aggression destroys the chances for a peaceful political solution and leads to escalation and more complications.
  6. This unjust aggression encourages the terrorist organizations and gives them momentum to continue in their terrorism.
  7. We call upon the Security Council of the United Nations to play its natural role in bringing peace rather than contribute to escalation of wars.
  8. We call upon all churches in the countries that participated in the aggression, to fulfill their Christian duties, according to the teachings of the Gospel, and condemn this aggression and to call their governments to commit to the protection of international peace.
  9. We salute the courage, heroism and sacrifices of the Syrian Arab Army which courageously protects Syria and provide security for its people. We pray for the souls of the martyrs and the recovery of the wounded. We are confident that the army will not bow before the external or internal terrorist aggressions; they will continue to fight courageously against terrorism until every inch of the Syrian land is cleansed from terrorism. We, likewise, commend the brave stand of countries which are friendly to the Syria and its people.
We offer our prayers for the safety, victory, and deliverance of Syria from all kinds of wars and terrorism. We also pray for peace in Syria and throughout the world, and call for strengthening the efforts of the national reconciliation for the sake of protecting the country and preserving the dignity of all Syrians.

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Unread 04-15-2018, 12:54 AM   #2
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Isn't the Orthodox church (and other churches) in Syria pretty pro-Assad though?

IIRC during the Arab Spring, when the regime killed a lot of people and it was confirmed by the international community, I remember seeing leaders of Syrian churches going forward and saying that it was not true. To me, they lost all their credibility there.
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Unread 04-15-2018, 02:30 AM   #3
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yes, they are, and you can see it in the last point in their joint statement. The Syrian Arab Army is the army of the Syrian state. The so-called "Free Syrian Army" are the rebels.

Assad keeps them safe and prevents militants from beating them up, basically. Religious minorities are pretty friendly with Assad just as they were to Saddam Hussein.
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I believe, O Lord, and I confess, that You are truly the Christ, the Son of the Living God, who came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am the chief...
~ Ryan Isaac
==========

The tree of Eden once caused bitterness,
But the Tree of the Cross made sweetness of life to blossom!
In tasting the first, Adam fell into to corruption,
But as we eat the Body of Christ we are given life and mystically deified,
Receiving God's eternal Kingdom.
Therefore we cry out in faith:
Glory to Your suffering, Lord!

- from the service of Wednesday Matins



Last edited by Homer Simpson; 04-15-2018 at 04:36 PM.
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Unread 04-15-2018, 11:08 AM   #4
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Thanks for posting, Ryan Isaac. It's always good to hear from the actual people who live with these realities.

I find that I am anti-Assad... but I am more anti- the alternatives to Assad than I am to Assad himself.
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Unread 04-15-2018, 05:33 PM   #5
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That's pretty much my take on it, John.
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I believe, O Lord, and I confess, that You are truly the Christ, the Son of the Living God, who came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am the chief...
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==========

The tree of Eden once caused bitterness,
But the Tree of the Cross made sweetness of life to blossom!
In tasting the first, Adam fell into to corruption,
But as we eat the Body of Christ we are given life and mystically deified,
Receiving God's eternal Kingdom.
Therefore we cry out in faith:
Glory to Your suffering, Lord!

- from the service of Wednesday Matins


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Unread 04-16-2018, 04:51 AM   #6
and you were wondering??
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I have found it increasingly difficult to have any opinion on this because there are so many conflixting facts that I cannot tell reality for fiction any more.


Any links or articles that any of you would like to share? I need to get my head around the situation.
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Unread 04-16-2018, 07:34 AM   #7
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*IF* the truth is that Assad did use chemical weapons on civilians, and *IF* what the U.S. and its allies did was solely to target those chemical weapons sites that were used in (in this case, alleged) atrocity, *THEN* I support these strikes. Chemical weapons are monstrous and have no place being inflicted upon people, no matter the actor.

That said, my overall feelings on Syria are much larger, as it's a major humanitarian crisis that we, unfortunately, probably have our hand in because of the fuel we've added (as do the Russians and the other actors throwing their support into it).
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Unread 04-16-2018, 03:29 PM   #8
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Unfortunately, this is not a black and white situation at all.

I am not a fan of bombing people at all. I'm also not a fan of insane leaders using chemical weapons on people. I honestly don't know what the answer is here.
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Unread 04-16-2018, 04:09 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uptown Thrunk View Post
I have found it increasingly difficult to have any opinion on this because there are so many conflixting facts that I cannot tell reality for fiction any more.


Any links or articles that any of you would like to share? I need to get my head around the situation.
This is where I am currently as well.
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Unread 04-16-2018, 08:26 PM   #10
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The thing that bugs me is the hypocrisy of it all.

Saddam gasses the Kurds, Western powers do nothing (until he does something they don't like totally unrelated to gassing Kurdish people) and probably even furnished him with the means to make mustard gas.

Israel has used white phosphorus - a chemical weapon by any sane definition of the term - on crowded areas in the Gaza Strip. The US does nothing (except for continuing to supply Israel with arms). Israel probably has a chemical weapons program of its own, too

Saudi Arabia is engaged in a brutal campaign of aggression against the Houthi ethnic group in western Yemen and doing so with American-made weapons, and nobody cares. My own country, for its part, sold Canadian-made armored vehicles to the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia.

That all of a sudden we care about human rights is a bit... rich.

Yes, I'm a cynic.
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I believe, O Lord, and I confess, that You are truly the Christ, the Son of the Living God, who came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am the chief...
~ Ryan Isaac
==========

The tree of Eden once caused bitterness,
But the Tree of the Cross made sweetness of life to blossom!
In tasting the first, Adam fell into to corruption,
But as we eat the Body of Christ we are given life and mystically deified,
Receiving God's eternal Kingdom.
Therefore we cry out in faith:
Glory to Your suffering, Lord!

- from the service of Wednesday Matins


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Unread 04-17-2018, 01:26 AM   #11
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I thought this was interesting.

https://www.haaretz.com/middle-east-...ians-1.5460758
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Unread 04-17-2018, 09:34 AM   #12
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Yeah, I posted that on my wall awhile back.

I think, on sober second thought, it might overstate its case a tiny bit, in that I try not to impute bad motives to people who believe what they do in good faith and without malice. But, in general, Syria is a bit between a rock and a hard place. It's very difficult to govern a country like that unless you do it with an iron fist to keep all the parties who want to kill each other under wraps.

Christians (and other religious minorities like Alawites and Druze) like Assad because he keeps them from being exterminated by Islamists. It's as simple as that.
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I believe, O Lord, and I confess, that You are truly the Christ, the Son of the Living God, who came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am the chief...
~ Ryan Isaac
==========

The tree of Eden once caused bitterness,
But the Tree of the Cross made sweetness of life to blossom!
In tasting the first, Adam fell into to corruption,
But as we eat the Body of Christ we are given life and mystically deified,
Receiving God's eternal Kingdom.
Therefore we cry out in faith:
Glory to Your suffering, Lord!

- from the service of Wednesday Matins


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