Shooting at Sutherland, TX Church

***Dr. Thrunk*** · 11-06-2017, 04:47 AM

Shooting at Sutherland TX Church

I am guessing everyone has already heard about this horrible, tragic shooting.

I honestly don't know what to say, except that I am both horrified, and also feel myself becoming strangely numb to this stuff because it is seeming to happen so frequently.

Of course, the internet is already rife with misinformation about this, so please be careful what you believe. Memes are claiming, for instance, that he called himself an Antifa soldier and yelled that he was trying to kill whites for communism. None of which has been corroborated.

**Dwight Schrute** · 11-06-2017, 07:10 AM

very very sad.

***DaGeek*** · 11-06-2017, 07:39 AM

I’m with you on feeling a bit numb to it, Taylor. Frankly, I don’t understand it. I pray that this small community turns toward God in this desperate time and that it leads to many more coming to know Him in it. Terrible tragedy. I read that eight of the victims were in the same family, even.

I don’t know gun laws in Texas, but it actually really surprised me that there weren’t people who carried concealed weapons within the church that could resist. Maybe there were and I just didn’t read about it. Just seems like Texas would be the place for that.

***Mara*** · 11-06-2017, 08:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaGeek

I don’t know gun laws in Texas, but it actually really surprised me that there weren’t people who carried concealed weapons within the church that could resist. Maybe there were and I just didn’t read about it. Just seems like Texas would be the place for that.

A couple articles said a neighbor with a gun actually shot him and chased him off, and suggested that's why the shooter fled in the first place. I was surprised as well that no one in the church would have a concealed weapon, but maybe they did and reaction time just wasn't enough. It sounds like it happened very quickly. From what I've gathered, nearly the entire congregation was killed or injured.

***Leboman*** · 11-06-2017, 08:09 AM

A recent update says that an armed neighbor confronted the shooter and gave chase with another by-stander. It is even being suggested that they may have actually been the ones who killed the suspect as they exchanged gunfire.

***DaGeek*** · 11-06-2017, 12:53 PM

Now, the news is saying that it was related to a domestic situation, but that the in-law of the shooter that he apparently threatened wasn't even there.

Reading the stories of all the people killed is painful. One of the victim's was the 14yr old daughter of the pastor, who was away at the time. The mother told news outlets in one article I read that the daughter would not have been able to handle this horrible event if she had survived, just from losing so much of her church family all at once. The visiting pastor was killed as well.

Lord have mercy.

***Leboman*** · 11-06-2017, 01:27 PM

This guy was demoted, dishonorably discharged, and confined for a year for abusing his wife and child. He should have NEVER been able to buy a gun. Without knowing more details it sounds like someone didn't do the proper background checks. According to CNN he was denied a license by the state of Texas. Someone had to have broken the law. The laws we do have in place are useless if they aren't followed and enforced.

***DaGeek*** · 11-06-2017, 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leboman

This guy was demoted, dishonorably discharged, and confined for a year for abusing his wife and child. He should have NEVER been able to buy a gun. Without knowing more details it sounds like someone didn't do the proper background checks. According to CNN he was denied a license by the state of Texas. Someone had to have broken the law. The laws we do have in place are useless if they aren't followed and enforced.

This was my same thought, unless the military version of the legal system (UCMJ) doesn’t fit the same criteria that domestic violence laws do. The discharge he got alone wouldn’t preclude him from firearm ownership, but a domestic assault conviction should have. It just depends if it translates over the same. He got denied a concealed carry permit in Texas — and rightfully so. I believe he should also have been denied getting even a firearm at all... I wonder what will end up happening.

EDIT: To clarify, I believe he definitely should not have been allowed to have a firearm from the ideal point of view. Legally, however, I also think he shouldn’t have been able to due to domestic violence laws. I need to do some research to see if they were in effect in 2012 when he got convicted.

**Dwight Schrute** · 11-06-2017, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leboman

This guy was demoted, dishonorably discharged, and confined for a year for abusing his wife and child. He should have NEVER been able to buy a gun. Without knowing more details it sounds like someone didn't do the proper background checks. According to CNN he was denied a license by the state of Texas. Someone had to have broken the law. The laws we do have in place are useless if they aren't followed and enforced.

but criminals always follow the law!

***Leboman*** · 11-06-2017, 06:18 PM

Looks like the Air Force really dropped the ball on this one.

Air Force Failed To Report Domestic Abuse Conviction

***DaGeek*** · 11-06-2017, 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leboman

Looks like the Air Force really dropped the ball on this one.

Air Force Failed To Report Domestic Abuse Conviction

Boy did they... Can definitely see some beads rolling over this, and rightfully so. It’s not to say he wouldn’t have potentially found another way to get a gun, but it would have made it a bit harder. Ugh.

***Leboman*** · 11-07-2017, 01:55 PM

It gets even worse. There is NO way this guy passes a background check if people do their jobs.

Suspect Escaped Mental Facility in 2012

**Dwight Schrute** · 11-07-2017, 02:00 PM

Lots of HOLY COW moments on this one. After he beat his step son enough to cause brain bleeding, he was caught beating up a dog?

Say what you want about the second amendment and guns - but this was a total breakdown at a system level.

***Leboman*** · 11-07-2017, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dwight Schrute

Lots of HOLY COW moments on this one. After he beat his step son enough to cause brain bleeding, he was caught beating up a dog?

Say what you want about the second amendment and guns - but this was a total breakdown at a system level.

Exactly. Had the laws in place been followed and people actually reported what they were supposed to he wouldn't have been able to legally buy any gun.

***Leboman*** · 11-08-2017, 08:59 PM

One interesting (but not THAT surprising) conversation I've seen spring up this week is how churches should address security. I got an e-mail from our home church in NC (still on the list) informing the congregation that the elders were getting together to discuss ways to make the campus more secure. I've seen articles in several other places as well, asking if we should allow guns in church. I personally know of one congregation that has had a "security ministry" in place for several years. I also realize some of the really big churches have on campus security (even armed) and have for a long time.

I don't know...I'm just uneasy with the way some of these conversations are going.