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Unread 08-23-2017, 06:20 AM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IsaactheSyrian View Post
Taylor just hit the ball out of the park putting into words something that had been niggling at me in this thread.

Also, jthomas, from the sounds of it you don't 'lean right'. You're full-on, tipped over on your side to the right.
I've got some other comments (I'm just waking up) but I wanted to address this. How can you make this kind of statement based on a few comments on one issue?

Want to sleep with someone that has the same parts as you? I don't care. Whether you want to celebrate Christmas or don't even think there is a god. I could care less. Want to smoke weed? It's legal all over the place, get stoned and have fun. I could go on. The thing is...while I'm not against these things and don't care if you do them....I'm not for them either. Do what you want.

Does that sound "tipped over on my side"?

I think your opinion of me is based on the fact that I'm old, white, and don't agree with you.

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Unread 08-23-2017, 06:38 AM   #62
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I am sure that is the problem. 30 years ago there were places a black man could not go without risking life or limb for being black. This is racism. A Vietnamese friend was held down by his fellow Vietnamese and branded for being friends with some white guys. This is racism.

Being called stupid for having a Southern accent is just talk. Being called a thug for walking in a gang and having sagging pants is talk. This is where we are today. It may be hateful speech but it is certainly not the hate and rage that I have seen. It hurts feelings but doesnt risk physical harm.

Blacks have their own culture. It is distinct and they are proud of it as they should be. They get mad over cultural appropriation all of the time. This is fine and good. But there is another side of having a different culture. You get made fun of by others. This is why people are picked on in school. People gravitate toward those like thierselves and tend to make fun of differences. Asian people also get made fun of. Southern people do to. It is life.

And I am sure that there are still plenty that turn to violence. Like I said 30 years ago, it was bad. All of those didnt die off. But I disagree with all of this subconcious stuff. People dont have to like you or agree with you. It is the real consequences that matter. I dont see much of it. I dont see people being turned down for a job because of color. I dont see anyone refusing to serve someone. I know some who give out loans and race has never been an issue.
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Unread 08-23-2017, 06:38 AM   #63
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https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.df3b5ac3df77

This is really the only reason I'm even having this conversation......because this is so got dang ridiculous.
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Unread 08-23-2017, 09:45 AM   #64
and you were wondering??
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If anyone is interested, here is a long, but very interesting article that a friend wrote on the political structure of the Alt-Right. I think it speaks volumes to the mythic fixations that are going on here.

Obscure Subjects: Myth and Metapolitics on the Alt-Right
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Taylor, you just got drive-by theologied.
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Unread 08-29-2017, 12:24 AM   #65
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All y'all sitting here talking about 'free speech' as though it's a sacred ideal need to read this. Stop treating making an idol out of free speech. There are some kinds of speech that should be resisted.

http://www.truth-out.org/news/item/4...ut-free-speech

Quote:
We are discussing today whether or not Nazis and white supremacists should be allowed to speak publicly, to rally in the streets, and to be taken seriously in the media and on campuses. There are plenty of liberal white people who have developed sophisticated arguments for why they should be allowed to do so, or at least why they ought not to be stopped. We are told that limiting freedom of speech is a slippery slope, that once it is undermined in one instance it is weakened in all instances. We are told that giving any attention to these heinous views and people only encourages them. We are told that the future of our civilization depends on civil debate, even with uncivil actors. We are told that their racist ideas are so ludicrous that they will fall like dominoes if vigorously and publicly refuted in debate. We are told that shutting them down is not strategic -- though we are rarely informed what, if any, strategy is in play.

These are all arguments from the proverbial "floor" of parliament. Regardless of their content, they reinforce the authority of the parliament as the only legitimate realm of discussion and decision-making. Yet the irony was, as the later history of abolition proved, the laws of parliament have always been full of loopholes to be abused by the powerful. And as we have learned, even once slavery was abolished, Britain continued to profit from and manage a vast racist empire, even unto the present day when British corporations and financial interests control huge swaths of the rest of the world's wealth.

The view of this "debate" and of free speech from the gallery is much different, then and now.
Many people today can imagine how those who watched silently from the gallery of the Parliament felt because they endure an analogous experience every day in this racist society, still. And still they bite their tongues as the would-be parliamentarians demand a "civil" debate about the very possibility of their freedom and safety. Meanwhile, scholars and writers who publicly decry racism are still subject to death threats and abuse, threats which are made more credible by increasingly well-organized far-right ideologues emboldened by their public notoriety.


Lest we forget, the British did not "free the slaves." Enslaved Africans abolished slavery through rebellion, riots, subversion and conspiracy. They also, in the acts of people like Equiano, used diplomacy, writing, lobbying and political organizing. The white abolitionists simply caught up to the facts on the ground that were being actively changed by the direct action of enslaved people.
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Unread 08-31-2017, 06:02 AM   #66
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"Hate cannot defeat hate. Only love can do that."
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Unread 08-31-2017, 08:30 AM   #67
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That's all well and good, except when you're saying that to a person whose life is threatened by casual white supremacy (the idea, conscious or not, that white people's lives matter more) in order to shut them up from talking about how that's the case.
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Unread 08-31-2017, 01:11 PM   #68
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Actually, I'm using it in order to say that you shouldn't resort to violence which seems to be what your post advocates. I don't really see the direct threat to your life unless you are looking toward the future and seeing an increase in white supremacy instead of the decrease that I expect to come. I really expect it to decrease just as it has throughout my lifetime. Either way, I think that the quote from Rev. King is appropriate as his example would be the best approach to either situation.
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Unread 09-04-2017, 11:30 AM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tlj009 View Post
Actually, I'm using it in order to say that you shouldn't resort to violence which seems to be what your post advocates. I don't really see the direct threat to your life unless you are looking toward the future and seeing an increase in white supremacy instead of the decrease that I expect to come. I really expect it to decrease just as it has throughout my lifetime. Either way, I think that the quote from Rev. King is appropriate as his example would be the best approach to either situation.
We jumped into war over the issue of Nazis... how much more violent can you get? It was one of the few times that the majority of people in the world all agreed with each other - Nazis are bad. Mass killings are bad. Hitler is used as a end of debate tactic "at least he's not Hitler!" or other such verbiage.

See, they didn't call themselves KKK... they didn't try to mimic the political ideals of Nazis... It's just... Hey, let's hate people of color and call ourselves Nazis!

Where is there even a debate about this? People literally died. There was such a concern, that a thousand people showed up in the town next door to me to hold a candlelight vigil. They were suppose to show up in Boston, and 40K people showed up to protest.

Look, I am aware that its the fault of the nations during World War I that lead to the Nazi party and World War II. And there is definitely a lot the left has done to lead to this as well. But accepting and acknowledging the causes of this, doesn't change the bottom line.

They called themselves Nazi's. They actually killed people.

Just think this conversation needs to be held with the reality of the situation in mind. Hitler is synonyms with pure evil, and these people are literally calling themselves the followers of Hitler.

Argument done. Nazi's tried to come to Boston. We said no. Doesn't get more simple then that. They ran away because enough people showed up to say no.

I'm just saying... America came late to the fight the first time around, and millions were murdered. Let's not wait until this turns into something before we show up.
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Unread 09-05-2017, 09:43 AM   #70
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I am not exactly sure what your issue with my post is. Is your arguments that self identified Nazis deserve to be killed? That it is a continuation of WWII? I am not likely to agree with that. War and violence are a last resort for specific purposes and should have a specific goal in mind. Elimination of hate will not be achieved through violence. I know that they are hateful and many of them are likely down right evil. I will still try to discourage violence.
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