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Unread 06-22-2017, 07:09 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by Uptown Thrunk View Post

Or, there will just be fewer pastors as churches join together to strengthen their base.
Not to be a pessimist, but I honestly don't see this happening. If anything, I see the opposite continuing, where churches keep splitting off, leaving more churches but smaller numbers of people who are unable to pay a full-time pastor but still expect full-time pastoral care, leading pastors to burn out and leave their ministries.

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Unread 06-22-2017, 07:13 AM   #17
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Perhaps the death of the "full time professional pastor" isn't necessarily a bad thing. I definitely would like to see less of the "celebrity pastor" but that's just me.

Just saying.
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Unread 06-22-2017, 08:30 AM   #18
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Perhaps the death of the "full time professional pastor" isn't necessarily a bad thing. I definitely would like to see less of the "celebrity pastor" but that's just me.

Just saying.
I'm not trying to imply that having a full-time pastor is inherently wrong by any means. I think churches that are large enough to support a full-time staff have every right to utilize that. I just see a lot of smaller churches seeing that and thinking it should work for them as well. There is a different dynamic present in a larger church than in a smaller church and both dynamics need different forms of organizational leadership.

Our church does have a full-time paid pastor and full-time youth pastor but utilizes elders, board members, and volunteers more than anything, while the full-time ministerial staff (pastor and youth pastor) are able to focus their efforts more directly into the organization of their unique ministerial roles. But, while our church is large enough to pay for those full-time ministers, it still wouldn't function without the volunteers. Smaller churches tend to need more of a "we're all in this together" attitude when it comes to the members taking care of more roles within the church.

I used to browse churchstaffing looking at audio/visual and sound tech jobs. I was surprised to see there were churches offering $40k+ salaries just to have someone run sound full-time. But those churches also had congregations of 1500-3000+.
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Unread 06-22-2017, 08:37 AM   #19
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I'm not trying to imply that having a full-time pastor is inherently wrong by any means. I think churches that are large enough to support a full-time staff have every right to utilize that. I just see a lot of smaller churches seeing that and thinking it should work for them as well. There is a different dynamic present in a larger church than in a smaller church and both dynamics need different forms of organizational leadership.

Our church does have a full-time paid pastor and full-time youth pastor but utilizes elders, board members, and volunteers more than anything, while the full-time ministerial staff (pastor and youth pastor) are able to focus their efforts more directly into the organization of their unique ministerial roles. But, while our church is large enough to pay for those full-time ministers, it still wouldn't function without the volunteers. Smaller churches tend to need more of a "we're all in this together" attitude when it comes to the members taking care of more roles within the church.

I used to browse churchstaffing looking at audio/visual and sound tech jobs. I was surprised to see there were churches offering $40k+ salaries just to have someone run sound full-time. But those churches also had congregations of 1500-3000+.

I don't think it is wrong either. If I did I wouldn't accept payment as a preacher. I do believe that having paid staff can deter others from serving.
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Unread 06-22-2017, 09:03 AM   #20
and you were wondering??
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Not to be a pessimist, but I honestly don't see this happening. If anything, I see the opposite continuing, where churches keep splitting off, leaving more churches but smaller numbers of people who are unable to pay a full-time pastor but still expect full-time pastoral care, leading pastors to burn out and leave their ministries.
Not in my old town. I think it was two years ago that three of the churches in town (two of the historically larger churches, each having attendances ranging from 200ish to 400ish, and one with like 20) joined together and now share resources and actually were able to keep most of the pastors as well.

I'm actually pretty proud of them and what they have been doing.

Ah, found the article!

https://www.news-journal.com/news/20...merging-as-on/
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Unread 06-22-2017, 03:03 PM   #21
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I come from a very large church tradition. The church my wife and I were married at was pretty large, probably around 3000 regular attendees. They had a TON of staff, when I left I bet they were paying 50 or 60 employees, most of which were full time. In fact, the youth pastor asked me to help out with the high school praise team, and they paid me like $150 a week just for that (This was in 2003). I think they kind of had this mentality of if you want the best, you need to pay for it. Very different than what many of you are describing in your experiences. Another observation I had while attending there was that "the church" paid for everything. For example, if you were ordering pizza for an outreach event, or music supplies like strings, even buying gloves for a work project, they would make sure that "the church" paid for things.
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Unread 06-22-2017, 03:35 PM   #22
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I'm a pastor/church planter of a church that has run as numerous as 35 adults plus kids, but is now smaller. I do work a full time job as a data analyst working with pharmaceutical companies for a large consulting firm. There is no way my church could afford to pay a salary. I love the people, love my job, and love my calling.

I think that there are pros and cons and while I would enjoying having the church provide for my income, it isn't a necessity. I think that by working this other job I can relate to those that work jobs better than being in my holy huddle all week. It is a drawback as I am not always available, but my folks know if need be, I can be. I am fortunate enough to have ample time for PTO and flexibility. I am expected to land my hours, but I can get those early in the morning and late at night if necessary.
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Unread 06-22-2017, 06:51 PM   #23
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I wonder how things will go, especially as church membership numbers continue to fall (Southern Baptists, one of the largest denominations in the US, have lost 1 million members in the last decade).

If the trend follows what it has in Europe, it may end up that if a church isn't a part of a strong denominational structure (so, non-denoms, Pentecostals, Baptists, etc) then the pastor will most likely have to work a 'secular' job.

Or, there will just be fewer pastors as churches join together to strengthen their base.
That raises the question: are people leaving traditional denominations like Southern Baptist for smaller and/or non-denominational ones?

The Uniting Church of Australia (an amalgamation of Methodist and a few other traditional denominations) has been declining over the last several years, and have been becoming inversely more progressive - and in all honesty - theologically questionable (I won't get into progressive issues, but I'm fairly certain they've become more adoptive of Aboriginal practices and Dreamtime theology in an effort to increase inclusivity).

Meanwhile, some of the Pentecostal churches here have been seeing some increase. Our Church (non-denominational) is growing every few months (though this is also fulfilling prophetic words we've been receiving over us since we started over 20 years ago).

I guess contextually it has will largely be impacted by different nations, what God's doing with them, etc.
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Unread 06-26-2017, 12:24 AM   #24
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Our lead pastor is full time, but we do have an associate pastor who is part time as a pastor & works a full time job.
He actually likes the job, as it gives him many ministry opportunities.
People know he is a pastor as well and come to him with questions.
ANd since he isn't the main pastor he can make that work.

I do know some who do need to work outside the church as their congregations can''t pay them full time--but they should see that as a ministry opportunities & not something to be endured.

SO to those who posted that they are part time--and work outside jobs--I am encouraged you still see a call to the ministry & have looked at ways of making it work--and also hope your congregation is encouraging, supportive and prays for you.
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