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Unread 12-19-2019, 01:56 PM   #106
and you were wondering??
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That's fine. I'm pretty much done with it.

This is like having people on a jury who hear the exact same evidence and come to different conclusions. This is dead-locked. None of our conclusions are objective. We all see things through our own personal lenses. I have a massive disdain for the two party system so that is going to color the way I see things. This looks like nothing more than partisan political games.
.
I'm just worried that one of us on here will take what the other one says too personally.

I hope nothing I've said has been out of line. It is hard to tell through text.

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Taylor, you just got drive-by theologied.
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Unread 12-19-2019, 02:01 PM   #107
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I'm just worried that one of us on here will take what the other one says too personally.

I hope nothing I've said has been out of line. It is hard to tell through text.
There's nothing personal on my end. Like I said. I am not even a Trump supporter. I'm not supporting him now but we're going around in circles. No exaggeration, I've watched at least a hundred hours of video from the hearings. Trump has done questionable things. I've never denied that. However, I do not feel they meet the standards of impeachable offense. You obviously disagree. I don't believe either of us are going to convince the other.
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Unread 12-19-2019, 04:34 PM   #108
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Interesting:


https://www.christianitytoday.com/ct...om-office.html
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Taylor, you just got drive-by theologied.
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Unread 12-20-2019, 06:54 AM   #109
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Now the Senior Editor of the *NATIONAL REVIEW* , a quite conservative And well known publication, is calling for Trump's impeachment.

https://www.nationalreview.com/magaz...hment/#slide-1

He does a good job of showing that the defenses of Trump rely in willful disbelief.

The case here is very strong.
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Taylor, you just got drive-by theologied.
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Unread 12-20-2019, 07:30 AM   #110
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He has been impeached. Questioning it at this point is futile. It's done.

He isn't being removed from office.

Once again, what have they accomplished? What was their endgame? To beat him in 2020? If that was their plan it seems to be backfiring on them. Public approval of the impeachment has decreased since November. Polls seems to indicate that the Democrats don't have a candidate that can beat him.

The real kicker is that Trump isn't even the problem. He is what you get when the system is so broken that you have to choose between the lesser of two evils. He is the end result of a corrupt two party system. Personally, I'm kinda ready to see it all come crashing down.

Last edited by Leboman; 12-20-2019 at 07:42 AM.
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Unread 12-20-2019, 09:27 AM   #111
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The end game is upholding the laws of our nation by holding a corrupt president accountable. I think it's that simple.
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Unread 12-20-2019, 12:50 PM   #112
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The end game is upholding the laws of our nation by holding a corrupt president accountable. I think it's that simple.
I don't believe that at all or else the last two Presidents would have been impeached as well and for much worse offenses. Just like Clinton, Trump has been impeached and will remain in office. Nothing will change for the better. You have stated that it doesn't matter what other Presidents have done but I say it darn sure does when they did worse and these same politicians turned their heads. Their hypocrisy is on display.

This is partisan posturing. I think it's that simple. Trump is still President. He will most likely be re-elected. Nothing has changed. If anything, he's got more support now than ever.
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Unread 12-20-2019, 03:57 PM   #113
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OK. Well I can't force you to believe me. I'm not trying to. You asked what the end game was and I answered.

I honestly hope they get him for more. While I think what he was impeached for is extremely bad behavior I think his continued violations of the emoluments clause is just as bad.
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Unread 12-20-2019, 04:04 PM   #114
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OK. Well I can't force you to believe me. I'm not trying to. You asked what the end game was and I answered.

I honestly hope they get him for more. While I think what he was impeached for is extremely bad behavior I think his continued violations of the emoluments clause is just as bad.
It's not about belief. It's about perception.

Nothing presented is black and white. It's all about interpretations and perceptions. Unlike Clinton (who you say doesn't matter) Trump did not commit a demonstrable crime. Improper behavior? Yes. Even I agree to that but improper behavior is not proper grounds for removing a President. If it were, then every President should be removed at some point during his/her term.
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Unread 12-20-2019, 04:37 PM   #115
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He hasn't been impeached yet. Pelosi is obstructing Congress with a lil quid pro quo. Wait a second...
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Unread 12-20-2019, 04:49 PM   #116
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He hasn't been impeached yet. Pelosi is obstructing Congress with a lil quid pro quo. Wait a second...
I just read an article on Bloomberg by Noah Feldman (a Harvard law professor) who says that he isn't impeached until the articles have been given to the Senate and they put him on trial. Interestingly enough, Feldman was one of the witnesses in the impeachment process.

Here is an interesting video. Democrats on Impeachment 1998
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Unread 12-20-2019, 06:40 PM   #117
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I wrote a big response but deleted it.

I'm sorry but I'm going to have to bow out for a while. I don't know why I tried to have a discussion like this on the internet again as I promised myself I wouldn't again.

This is not a fruitful discussion and I don't think we will be able to come to any sort of understanding. I fear we are doomed to talk in circles at this rate. Ima bow out for a bit.
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Unread 12-21-2019, 10:26 PM   #118
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Originally Posted by Leboman View Post
I just read an article on Bloomberg by Noah Feldman (a Harvard law professor) who says that he isn't impeached until the articles have been given to the Senate and they put him on trial. Interestingly enough, Feldman was one of the witnesses in the impeachment process.

Here is an interesting video. Democrats on Impeachment 1998
Yep. It's going nowhere but low info voters won't know it. Mission accomplished.

Pee tapes, Russians, taxes, and impeachment have all failed I wonder what's coming next. Maybe they will try running a viable candidate against him (lol).
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Unread 12-22-2019, 07:45 AM   #119
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Maybe they will try running a viable candidate against him (lol).

They don't have one and they know it.

I keep waiting for Hillary to jump in at the last minute.
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Unread 01-02-2020, 08:19 AM   #120
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regurgitating this thread, and taking it in a slightly different direction that I'm curious about right now.

has our political system always been this polarized and messed up? or is it kind of like me telling my kids that the music these days has never been so evil, and every generation of parents says that?

I try to look at this whole thing with an open mind, and am failing.
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