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Unread 09-26-2019, 03:14 PM   #61
and you were wondering??
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In case anyone isnt caught up, here is a good summary:

https://www.lawfareblog.com/self-imp...y-conversation

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Unread 09-27-2019, 07:29 AM   #62
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But, maybe the process of impeachment is more important than what the Senate may decide to do.

For instance, presenting the facts in a clear manner for the citizens of the US to see
I would say that is accurate.

What I am more curious about is what if he would have asked for the same investigation about a non-rival that had not declared candidacy? Would this be a thing? Do special situations arise simply because you're a rival?

Even more of a launching point: What happens if there is sketchy work by the family there to the possibility of it being illegal? Does that change anything?

Personally, I believe the conversation existed and there may have been discussion and possibly to the point that this inquiry is needed. However, I'm also skeptical as we have seen him put through the ringer more than any other president. Since the outset he has been under investigation and there has been an incredible amount of money spent by the government to prove nothing (so far).

What I'm also surprised by is the fact that people are continually worried about someone interfering with our elections but turn a blind eye when we do it to other sovereign nations.

All that to say, it will be interesting to see how it all plays out and most likely at least one person will lose their job. Who that is remains to be seen.
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Not like a ho ho, mind you. Like a godly ho.
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Unread 09-27-2019, 09:39 AM   #63
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Bill Clinton was impeached for perjury. He wasn't removed from office.

Trump very well may be impeached but he will not be removed from office either.

FWIW, I've read the entire transcript. What he did is shady but it isn't quid pro quo. He didn't promise a single thing. He was very smart in the way he worded things. I also believe he is doing nothing that every other President in my lifetime didn't do at some point. Did he do something questionable? Absolutely. But so did Obama, Bush, Clinton, Bush, Reagan, Carter, Ford, and Nixon.

I find it interesting that for some reason people are trying to hold this particular President to a higher standard than the last three or four we've had. He's the President. You can't trust him. We've never been able to trust them. If Hillary was President you wouldn't be able to trust her either. If she had been caught doing this exact same thing some of those trying to bring Trump down would be defending her.

The entire process is hypocritical and sickening. This is why I have completely given up hope for the system. It is fatally broken and no one is going to fix it. To top it off, the Democrats are so incompetent and out of touch that they are practically guaranteeing Trump a second term.
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Unread 09-27-2019, 12:57 PM   #64
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Huh? Its exceptionally damning. As is the whistleblower report, which notes that the transcript was moved to a separate system to keep it under wraps.

I'm guessing you havent been paying close attention to what is going on with this?
I was 8 hours behind on the news cycle but caught up now. It makes it a little shadier but I stand by my thoughts. I agree with Lee above and he worded it better than I could.

Trump released the transcript and the complaint so calling it a cover-up is absurd. That's transparency.

I think this is just another weak attempt to oust our duly elected president. They know that they are not likely to win a fair fight. My crazy conspiracy theory is that Trump blew the whistle himself to get Bidens alleged crime in the news and make the Democrats look like morons (again).
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Unread 09-28-2019, 08:33 AM   #65
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I think this is just another weak attempt to oust our duly elected president. They know that they are not likely to win a fair fight. My crazy conspiracy theory is that Trump blew the whistle himself to get Bidens alleged crime in the news and make the Democrats look like morons (again).
It's not just your theory. I've seen a couple of people suggest that Trump wants them to impeach him because it will expose all of this stuff.

Think about it. Joe Biden (based upon the information available) seems to have influenced the Ukrainian government to fire a prosecutor who could have nailed the company his son was connected to. You want quid pro quo? Biden threatened to withhold over a billion dollars if the Ukraine didn't get rid of this prosecutor. This happened in the Spring of 2016 while he was still Vice President. There are documents showing that Biden even bragged about it? Where is the outrage over that?

Biden Brags About Getting Prosecutor Fired

I am not defending Trump, please understand that. I do not like him. I did not vote for him. I will not vote for him. I'm just saying that those who insist he is somehow more corrupt or more evil than others are ignoring the obvious. The entire system is corrupt. We cannot trust any of them.

I feel sorry for anyone who truly believes that either the Democrats or Republicans care about anything other than money and power. They don't care about us.
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Unread 12-12-2019, 11:22 PM   #66
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Unread 12-13-2019, 02:28 AM   #67
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Originally Posted by Dr. Thrunk View Post
Huh? Its exceptionally damning. As is the whistleblower report, which notes that the transcript was moved to a separate system to keep it under wraps.

I'm guessing you havent been paying close attention to what is going on with this?
I know I havenít.
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Unread 12-13-2019, 08:14 AM   #68
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Snazzy and likely to happen.

But....what will happen is that the Senate will not convict.
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Originally Posted by Giga Hertz View Post
I would throw any bro under the bus for a Cheeto. Or a ho for that matter.

Not like a ho ho, mind you. Like a godly ho.
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Unread 12-13-2019, 10:49 AM   #69
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Trump will not be removed from office and is probably going to get re-elected and a lot of Democrats are going to lose their seats come next November. This is what happens when people play partisan politics in a broken two party system.
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Unread 12-13-2019, 12:46 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by bravesfan007 View Post
Snazzy and likely to happen.

But....what will happen is that the Senate will not convict.
If he's committed impeachable acts then it shouldn't matter. I get that this is 'politics', but whether it fails or not, a corrupt president should be held accountable for his actions by those who have the ability to act. If others want to go along with it, that's on them.
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Taylor, you just got drive-by theologied.
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Unread 12-13-2019, 07:21 PM   #71
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Why do you even think of these things?
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Unread 12-13-2019, 08:16 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by Dr. Thrunk View Post
If he's committed impeachable acts then it shouldn't matter. I get that this is 'politics', but whether it fails or not, a corrupt president should be held accountable for his actions by those who have the ability to act. If others want to go along with it, that's on them.
You and I both know the problem is that there are differing views of whether or not those acts were impeachable. Heck, for that matter the entire thing (high crimes) is relative.

Maybe that's why the founding fathers used that language. Maybe they wanted to leave it vague enough that the act had to be supremely worse than anything utterly imaginable to actually remove the president.

Edit: And I am not a Trump supporter, but I'm also not anti-Trump like some folks. He's playing the role he is supposed to play.
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Originally Posted by Giga Hertz View Post
I would throw any bro under the bus for a Cheeto. Or a ho for that matter.

Not like a ho ho, mind you. Like a godly ho.
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Unread 12-14-2019, 07:21 AM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Thrunk View Post
If he's committed impeachable acts then it shouldn't matter. I get that this is 'politics', but whether it fails or not, a corrupt president should be held accountable for his actions by those who have the ability to act. If others want to go along with it, that's on them.
I'm not convinced that he has any more than Clinton, Bush, or Obama did while they were in office.

"Corrupt" goes along with the position of President. It's sad to say that but the evidence speaks for itself. Hillary and Biden are just as corrupt as Trump so even if one of them were to actually beat him, nothing is going to change.

That's why I gave up on politics decades ago. It's all partisan games to them. Mark my word, this impeachment has set a dangerous precedent. Every future President will now be subject to impeachment by an opposing House using the rules the Democrats are using here. They couldn't proved the two crimes they accused him of so now they're using broad definitions of abuse of power to get him. What Nader, Pelosoi, and Schiff are doing is just as much an abuse of power. The whole system is broken and that isn't Trump's fault. He's a product of it.

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Originally Posted by bravesfan007 View Post
You and I both know the problem is that there are differing views of whether or not those acts were impeachable. Heck, for that matter the entire thing (high crimes) is relative.

Maybe that's why the founding fathers used that language. Maybe they wanted to leave it vague enough that the act had to be supremely worse than anything utterly imaginable to actually remove the president.

Edit: And I am not a Trump supporter, but I'm also not anti-Trump like some folks. He's playing the role he is supposed to play.
Exactly. This is the broken system we have and nothing is going to change. There's too much money behind it. The first thing we should do is start limiting terms on Congress.
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Work at living in peace with everyone, and work at living a holy life, for those who are not holy will not see the Lord.
Look after each other so that none of you fails to receive the grace of God.
Watch out that no poisonous root of bitterness grows up to trouble you, corrupting many.

Hebrews 12:14-15 (NLT)
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Unread 12-14-2019, 05:27 PM   #74
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Do you guys realize how ridiculous you sound with this weird "both sides-ism" you keep spouting? It amazes me that anybody can think that this moron president is not unfit for office.

Without a doubt what he did in the articles put forth by the house committee are impeachable offenses.

And get out of here with your ridiculous fatalism regarding our government.

My opinion: this is the last dying breath and hold out of a bankrupt political machine that has conscripted the GOP. I hope we see some corrupt guys go down and hopefully the conservatives can find a way to save face by becoming a party of ideals again.
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Unread 12-16-2019, 09:39 AM   #75
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Do you guys realize how ridiculous you sound with this weird "both sides-ism" you keep spouting? It amazes me that anybody can think that this moron president is not unfit for office.

Without a doubt what he did in the articles put forth by the house committee are impeachable offenses.

And get out of here with your ridiculous fatalism regarding our government.

My opinion: this is the last dying breath and hold out of a bankrupt political machine that has conscripted the GOP. I hope we see some corrupt guys go down and hopefully the conservatives can find a way to save face by becoming a party of ideals again.
No. It's not ridiculous. I live in the Commonwealth of Virginia where things are...for lack of better words...heating up on the idea of what rights are entailed in the 2nd Amendment.

Would I vote for Trump? No. Would I vote to impeach him? No. Not unless you start impeaching nearly every public official.

Both sides have set dangerous precedents within the past ten years. I'm afraid there is no walking back from the ledge now.
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Originally Posted by Giga Hertz View Post
I would throw any bro under the bus for a Cheeto. Or a ho for that matter.

Not like a ho ho, mind you. Like a godly ho.
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