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Unread 12-13-2018, 04:20 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by Giga Hertz View Post
I'll believe it when I see it. The man loves himself too much.
I don't think his not running will have anything to do with a decision he himself makes. I predict that either he will be so politically toxic due to the overt evidence that has come to light about his criminal activities that he won't be supported by the RNC. Or, alternatively, he will have been indicted and/or impeached by mid to late 2019.


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Originally Posted by Giga Hertz View Post
Let's be honest here though; everyone who voted for him knew he was dodgy. I would guess a very minute number of voters were convinced he was a nice guy.
I think the situation is/was much more complicated than that. What is coming is more than just 'dodgy' behaviour, man. He sold the interests of the country for access to various markets, and him and his campaign committee solicited help from foreign nations. Plus, violation of other campaign laws by using contributions to pay off porn actresses. Again, the reasons for people supporting him are complicated, but this stuff is beyond the pale. It's possible that people are deluded enough to think the evidence from the Mueller investigation is just the 'deep state' deploying en masse to take down the Supreme Leader. But, I doubt that there are that many people that brainwashed.


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Originally Posted by Giga Hertz View Post
and then to things that were just plain false (BuzzFeed and the Russian dossier anyone?).
Actually, much of the Steele dossier has been verified, and very little disproven. People involved were questioned by Congress. I've read the transcripts. The constant attacks on the dossier by Trump and his supporters is mostly junk, especially the idea that it was opposition research started by Dems and skewed form the get go. It was started by Repubs, Dems financed after they jumped ship, and the people involved in the fact finding did not know who was paying for the research to be done. If you want to know more, let me know and I can direct you to public sources. But, the best compilation to date is Seth Abramson's new book Proof of Collusion.

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Originally Posted by Giga Hertz View Post
Ben Shapiro pointed out a while back when it was rumoured Oprah might run for 2020: everyone knows who Trump is and what he's like. No one's surprised. This Stormy Daniels thing? No one's surprised, no one cares. It's just finding dirt and throwing it at a pile of dirt; short of a criminal charge, nothing's really going to change his image negatively.
Well, the paying people off was illegal. Hence the importance of Cohen's turning on Trump and the mountain of evidence (including tapes; some have been publicly released already) he has given to the Mueller inquiry.

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Originally Posted by Giga Hertz View Post
Oprah on the other hand, is a media darling with an almost pristine image. If she goes to election, when dirt does get out (there almost certainly will be something), it's going to cause damage. Trump more or less has immunity because no one's surprised.
I doubt Oprah will run, or be taken seriously. But, it't neither here nor there for me. Flynn has flipped, and he was deep in the Russia stuff. Cohen has flipped, and he knows everything. The indictments are racking up and up. The dude is drowning.

Further, despite the gloating of Trump, this past election was a phenomenal showing by Dems, independents, and Repubs who are tired of Trump. By any metric, the Dems did very good, and much of what held them back was nefarious gerrymandering and voter suppression (as evidenced in Georgia and Florida, but now we are seeing the NC Repubs were THROWING AWAY BALLOTS in Dem areas).

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Unread 12-13-2018, 04:37 PM   #32
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Actually, much of the Steele dossier has been verified, and very little disproven. People involved were questioned by Congress. I've read the transcripts. The constant attacks on the dossier by Trump and his supporters is mostly junk, especially the idea that it was opposition research started by Dems and skewed form the get go. It was started by Repubs, Dems financed after they jumped ship, and the people involved in the fact finding did not know who was paying for the research to be done. If you want to know more, let me know and I can direct you to public sources. But, the best compilation to date is Seth Abramson's new book Proof of Collusion.
Go for it. The last I heard was about 1.5 years ago when the editor of BuzzFeed was being reprimanded by someone on MSNBC for running with it even though it hadn't been verified and was arguably made up. I hadn't actually heard anything new about it being verified since then.

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Well, the paying people off was illegal. Hence the importance of Cohen's turning on Trump and the mountain of evidence (including tapes; some have been publicly released already) he has given to the Mueller inquiry.
And that's all fine; my post was more of an "until he is charged"

Quote:
Further, despite the gloating of Trump, this past election was a phenomenal showing by Dems, independents, and Repubs who are tired of Trump. By any metric, the Dems did very good, and much of what held them back was nefarious gerrymandering and voter suppression (as evidenced in Georgia and Florida, but now we are seeing the NC Repubs were THROWING AWAY BALLOTS in Dem areas).
Do you have a link to the discarded ballots? (I hadn't heard of that until now, so I'd like to know more).

The problem also is that there is evidence of crap like this happening on both sides and has been happening to varying degrees over the last few decades. I'm just curious if this has always been an equally huge problem and this is just the first election where it's really blown up, of if this is literally the first time there has been such a huge vested interest in it from parties with a lot of stakes in the game?
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Unread 12-13-2018, 05:28 PM   #33
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It's late here (23:21), but I'll try to put some stuff up later.

Also, seriously, I don't expect non-Americans to know all the ins and outs. And, honestly, it's kinda embarrassing that us Americans expect that everybody in the whole world is as invested as this as we are. So, if I came off like that, sorry!

About the NC thing/:

This one is a bit old now, and I think there have been more developments. But, this looks super fishy (even though I didn't quite get all the details correct above). https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/03/u...on-fraud-.html

It's probably a bit tangential. But, I guess my point is that I'm not sure that Trump is as popular as he tries to make himself seem, and I think that the lethargy of the GOP, and the enthusiasm of the Dems is a bit of evidence that things could go pretty dang bad for Trump in the near future.
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Taylor, you just got drive-by theologied.
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Unread 12-13-2018, 07:11 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by Dr. Thrunk View Post
It's late here (23:21), but I'll try to put some stuff up later.
All good!

Quote:
Also, seriously, I don't expect non-Americans to know all the ins and outs. And, honestly, it's kinda embarrassing that us Americans expect that everybody in the whole world is as invested as this as we are. So, if I came off like that, sorry!
Oh, not at all! I just wanted to make sure we were both reading each other right. I admittedly have a much better idea of American politics at the moment than Australian, which is pretty sad.

Most of my news comes from the Daily Wire and Louder With Crowder, but I try to balance that out with Vox and HuffPo so I'm getting information from both sides.

Quote:
About the NC thing/:

This one is a bit old now, and I think there have been more developments. But, this looks super fishy (even though I didn't quite get all the details correct above). https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/03/u...on-fraud-.html
Dang, that is pretty dodgy. I'm actually pretty concerned about all the stuff that comes out with your elections, like all the stuff around Broward County (that place is just crawling with concerns and questions this year!).

You don't really hear about that sort of stuff happening here (not to say it definitely doesn't happen). I wonder if our systems for counting and collecting are insanely different (other than the fact voting (or at least getting marked as present) is mandatory here).

Quote:
It's probably a bit tangential. But, I guess my point is that I'm not sure that Trump is as popular as he tries to make himself seem, and I think that the lethargy of the GOP, and the enthusiasm of the Dems is a bit of evidence that things could go pretty dang bad for Trump in the near future.
I don't think he's as popular as he seems, but conversely I don't think he's as hated as MSM makes him seem (again, not saying he IS popular and even close to a great President). There is also a marked inherent bias because people just want to hate him. For instance, the whole tear gas thing: I won't get into a debate about that situation in itself. However, we know that Trump isn't the first President to do this, and he probably won't be the last. We know Obama had reportedly used it at the border on 79 separate incidents. I Googled for news article within that timeframe and could not find an outlet reporting on it.

Again, not saying he's a nice, likeable guy, and I'm not saying he was the most fit candidate that the Republicans could have trotted out. I'm just suggesting former presidents - especially his immediate predecessor - weren't being held to nearly the same level of scrutiny or accountability.
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Unread 12-14-2018, 09:40 AM   #35
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I don't think Trump won because he was popular. Most of the people I personally know who voted for him did so begrudgingly. He won because the Democrats ran someone even more unlikable and sketchy. I honestly believe a lot of it wasn't necessarily voting "for" him as it was voting "against" Clinton.

It truly was a case of "damned if you do...damned if you don't."

FWIW...I didn't vote for either.

As far as voter fraud goes...I don't believe either side runs a clean show. The whole process is a joke and there is so much going on behind the scenes that we'll never know. I truly believe both parties are guilty. I read the link about the stuff in NC. The story quotes the News & Observer. Just so you know, that's the local paper in Raleigh (the capital) and it leans very left and doesn't always present unbiased reporting. That doesn't mean the facts aren't true but I do know (because I used to read that paper daily) that they typically put a spin on things. Of course...isn't that EVERY "news" outlet these days? Here's a story about voter fraud in Texas back in 2016 that was the "other" side.

https://www.star-telegram.com/news/l...219920740.html

I have given up hope (political) for this country. If ever I have understood Paul's words about not being a citizen of this world...I do now. And just so it's clear, I didn't want to see Trump become President and hope that he doesn't get a second term.
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Unread 12-22-2018, 03:54 AM   #36
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Ive been late posting on this, but for a decent overview of the Steele Dossier, this sums up things nicely.

https://www.lawfareblog.com/steele-d...-retrospective
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Taylor, you just got drive-by theologied.
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Unread 01-14-2019, 06:24 PM   #37
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Did anyone see Tucker Carlson's soliloquy on Fox News?

(disclaimer: I am not a Fox guy)

https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/tuck...ts-infuriating
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Unread 01-15-2019, 10:50 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IsaactheSyrian View Post
Did anyone see Tucker Carlson's soliloquy on Fox News?

(disclaimer: I am not a Fox guy)

https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/tuck...ts-infuriating
Don't watch the news but since you linked it, I'll give it a go.
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Unread 01-15-2019, 10:56 AM   #39
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That was interesting. Like I said, I don't watch the news so I don't know if this is typical of Tucker or not.
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Unread 01-15-2019, 07:26 PM   #40
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I thought it was interesting too. It's nice to see a conservative critique of American consumer capitalism. I think a lot of people are waking up and realizing that what what passes for conservatism in (North) America has become is actually largely anti-family.
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Unread 01-25-2019, 05:44 AM   #41
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https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/don...-probe-n962601

The chips continue to fall.

Again, I may be wrong, but it is only a matter of time until Trump gets got.
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Taylor, you just got drive-by theologied.
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Unread 01-25-2019, 10:39 AM   #42
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Again, I may be wrong, but it is only a matter of time until Trump gets got.
I don't know. We're almost two years into this and they still haven't gotten to the top. Could it be that it will be after his presidency?
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Unread 01-25-2019, 10:57 AM   #43
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Bill Clinton got impeached and didn't leave the White House. If Bill and Hillary's shenanigans didn't get them busted in eight years I don't see this playing out.

I'm no fan or supporter of the President outside of the biblical mandate to honor my leaders.

He'll skate along and at least finish his term.

Whether that's good, bad, or something else I can't say. I honestly don't trust any of them. I am done with politics. I most likely will never vote again.
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Unread 01-26-2019, 05:42 AM   #44
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Trump will skate because the charges have nothing to do with him... or Russia... it's all about wikileaks if you read the actual charges and not the fake news.
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Unread 01-26-2019, 10:39 AM   #45
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Trump will skate because the charges have nothing to do with him... or Russia... it's all about wikileaks if you read the actual charges and not the fake news.
Well, Mueller and co. seem to allege that the information from Wikileaks is Russian, and that there was coordination between the Russian gov, Wikileaks, and the Trump campaign in this regard.

I think this has everything to do with Trump and Russia, then. And, certainly it would make no sense for Mueller to be investigating this if he thought otherwise, as the whole point of the investigation is questioning the extent of Russian interference.

Also, top Trump campaign officials directed Stone. But, the question on everyone's mind is whether top campaign officials were briefed or directed by Trump, especially as Trump actually does seem to coordinate activities (that's just his personality; he wants to direct and be informed). We also have to remember that Stone and Trump are super tight.


For a more in depth analysis, check out this (which comes from the same source you used): https://www.lawfareblog.com/get-me-r...ers-indictment
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Taylor, you just got drive-by theologied.
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