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Unread 01-30-2017, 10:14 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by Leboman View Post
Would you agree that the Spirit must first give that nudge before we can respond? Would you agree that without His prompting we cannot come to faith?
Yes.

I am not Calvinist, nor am I Armenian.

But the freewill argument/stance makes people feel good!

IMHO, the nuts-and-bolts of predestination are a fool's errand. That God has determined the outcome of all things is a given ... otherwise Satan might win! So if we drill down to "does God determine only some things," where could you draw a line? Drill down further to "does God determine my each-and-every-step," and you either come to the place that He doesn't or He does.

If He doesn't, what is to prevent you from freewilling yourself into Hell? Or maybe He can't determine everything?! Do we have the power (yes, power) to enter Heaven, then leave, then enter ... ad nauseum? Yikes!

If He does, should we try to discern to what extent He "fiddles" with our lives? Or is He a Master Puppeteer for every life? Yikes, too!

Honestly, dwelling (living) on this topic too much is just another "Tower of Babel" game, with a bad ending. Yes, it's fun to toss ideas around, but to get locked into any particular aspect can drive you into any number of heresies ... again, IMHO.

Cheers! Jesus is coming soon, and will tell us what we need to know.

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Unread 01-30-2017, 11:06 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by charisjapan View Post
Yes.

I am not Calvinist, nor am I Armenian.

But the freewill argument/stance makes people feel good!

IMHO, the nuts-and-bolts of predestination are a fool's errand. That God has determined the outcome of all things is a given ... otherwise Satan might win! So if we drill down to "does God determine only some things," where could you draw a line? Drill down further to "does God determine my each-and-every-step," and you either come to the place that He doesn't or He does.

If He doesn't, what is to prevent you from freewilling yourself into Hell? Or maybe He can't determine everything?! Do we have the power (yes, power) to enter Heaven, then leave, then enter ... ad nauseum? Yikes!

If He does, should we try to discern to what extent He "fiddles" with our lives? Or is He a Master Puppeteer for every life? Yikes, too!

Honestly, dwelling (living) on this topic too much is just another "Tower of Babel" game, with a bad ending. Yes, it's fun to toss ideas around, but to get locked into any particular aspect can drive you into any number of heresies ... again, IMHO.

Cheers! Jesus is coming soon, and will tell us what we need to know.
Great point, and I agree.
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Unread 01-31-2017, 05:35 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by charisjapan View Post
Yes.

I am not Calvinist, nor am I Armenian.
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Unread 01-31-2017, 05:40 AM   #49
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Jokes about Armenian aside (a priest whose blog I followed said that he once passed by an Armenian evangelical church, making the possibility of an Armenian Arminian in Armani a very distinct thing )

Thinking about the nuts and bolts of this topic inevitably lead to pride and thinking you've got God figured out.

Repent of your sins, believe the Gospel, and love God and your neighbor. That's it.
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Unread 01-31-2017, 07:39 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by IsaactheSyrian View Post
Thinking about the nuts and bolts of this topic inevitably lead to pride and thinking you've got God figured out.
That doesn't follow at all.

Quote:
Repent of your sins, believe the Gospel, and love God and your neighbor. That's it.
There's a bit more that God has revealed to us than that, which we are told to pass on to our children. This is not pride, but obedience.
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Unread 01-31-2017, 07:47 AM   #51
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While I am in the "we can't really figure this out" camp I do enjoy discussing it and seeing how others understand and interpret things.

This is what I do see in Scripture.

We are predestined.
We have freewill.

That's all I'm really comfortable stating.
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