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Unread 01-14-2017, 07:10 AM   #1
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Obamacare's Future

Can we have a discussion on this?

I'm not sure if I understand exactly what is going on.

There has been a desire to repeal this for a while among a large portion of the country and the base of the GOP. Repealing is getting rid of it, right? Or, do I misunderstand the meaning?

Part of Trump's platform was getting rid of most of it. After the election he qualified his stance, saying that he liked Obamacare's position on pre-existing conditions and that children could stay on parent's insurance until 26.

Now, from my understanding, it has been repealed entirely.

Am I wrong?

How will this process work?

I realise that there are problems with Obamacare. But, I am pretty worried about the god being thrown out with the bad.

What do y'all think? What is going on? What may happen in the future? Is this good, bad, or a mixture?

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Unread 01-14-2017, 02:03 PM   #2
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I honestly have been too busy (and somewhat unplugged from Facebook and the news) to be looking, but it looks like there is going to be a full repeal.

But this is madness to me unless there is a replacement. There is, as I have heard thus far, no replacement given.

Now, I will say I am no fan of the ACA. It was a massive overreach (it's a tax? BS), lots of unintended consequences (a very broken insurance pool going through healthcare.gov, broken website), a lot of things that were said will not happen happened (loss of coverage, loss of doctor, hiking in premiums, rises in costs, etc.).

We must either replace it with single-payer, or we must at least put into law many of the protections and reforms that the ACA did well. There is a statistical, but I consider doubtfully ethical, reason my wife would be charged more for her higher risk of acquiring that costly condition of pregnancy. I'd like to see her not get charged more, though.

The benefit of getting insurance despite pre-existing conditions is, at best, a bandaid or a thin strip of duct tape. What we should have is access, period, to healthcare that is affordable. Consequently, I am quite open to the consideration that single payer is the way to go. I'd love to hear what will occur, without wild speculation and scare tactics. I mean the theoretical underworking that would justify (or that it is impossible to justify) single payer.

But will the republicans initiate single payer? I doubt. I would be truly surprised. But Trump is a confusing man with small hands. He might do it.
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Unread 01-15-2017, 03:15 PM   #3
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At this point in time, it has not been repealed, nor has anything been changed... yet.

The votes that were taken on whether to keep several key components of the ACA were non-binding, so while they are likely representative of what may happen in the future, those votes specifically had no effect.

From what I understand, the ACA was originally intended to be single-payer, but finally got passed through a series of compromises that completely changed it. Additionally, many states refused the extra Medicaid funding that would have covered a lot of people financially stuck between making too little for affordable marketplace options and making too much for existing Medicaid coverage, and we've seen a lot of people fall through the cracks as a result.

One thing I think most people can agree on is that the ACA is not a perfect, end-all be-all solution, at least not how it was passed. The question was and is, then, do we tweak it or get rid of it entirely? If we get rid of it, what goes in its place?

My opinions on that matter aside, what truly worries me is the haste with which it seems the GOP is trying to get rid of it, without first coming up with a better (or even any) solution. What happens in the interim?

While Trump has certainly named several important components of the existing program he'd like to keep, he's not really in control of it, is he? Aside from a veto here or there, which can be overturned with the necessary congressional majority (rare, but not unheard of). And I'm having trouble putting stock into any of his promises in the first place. His track record for honesty is extremely short.

So I'm cautiously worried. Not enough to think the country is doomed to hell, but more than enough to consider that we could be facing a very serious problem unless Congress comes up with a tolerable solution before dismantling our entire healthcare system.
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Unread 01-17-2017, 01:39 PM   #4
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About overturning vetoes: It requires a supermajority, which the Republicans/those against ACA do not currently have.
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Unread 01-17-2017, 02:09 PM   #5
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From my perspective, the ACA has been a disaster. It has not been affordable and whilemany people are not uninsured anymore, many are underinsured to the point of no functional difference.

I am very much for keeping the ban on pre-existing conditions, and I wish this could be codified as a disability issue.

I think the biggest ACA problem was unintended consequence. Any bill that massive is going to cause chain reactions it could not anticipate.
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Unread 04-20-2017, 08:20 PM   #6
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From my perspective, the ACA has been a disaster. It has not been affordable and whilemany people are not uninsured anymore, many are underinsured to the point of no functional difference.

I am very much for keeping the ban on pre-existing conditions, and I wish this could be codified as a disability issue.

I think the biggest ACA problem was unintended consequence. Any bill that massive is going to cause chain reactions it could not anticipate.
I like this perspective.


I also have issues with the requiring of people to purchase any commodity. It's a liberty violation.
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Unread 04-24-2017, 06:31 PM   #7
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I like this perspective.


I also have issues with the requiring of people to purchase any commodity. It's a liberty violation.
I have issues with considering health care a commodity.

I live in California where we have arguably the best roll-out of the ACA and it's still a joke for my wife and me.

I think a full repeal is stupid without a replacement but given the majority of people that make up the house I wouldn't discount such a move.
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Unread 04-26-2017, 11:48 AM   #8
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I have issues with considering health care a commodity.
It's a service made up of the consumption of goods and services provided by the labor of the workers in the field.

Nobody is entitled to someone else's labor.
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Unread 04-26-2017, 12:27 PM   #9
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It's a service made up of the consumption of goods and services provided by the labor of the workers in the field.

Nobody is entitled to someone else's labor.
That's cool that you think that. I agree with you in the current situation where we are forced to purchase a commodity (like ______ health insurance) from corporation. I disagree with you in the spirit of the Constitution and the part of the preamble that speaks about "promoting the general welfare" of the people that make up the United States. Do you not think that access to affordable health care is promoting the general welfare of the people that live in the United States?

I will gladly give up some of my hard earned wages if it means keeping another citizen alive. I live in a society in which I depend on the similar sacrifices of other individuals, not some libertarian diystopia in which every man is an island and should have to fend for themselves just to survive.

Maybe somebody who can better articulate the argument can lay the framework that there can be a healthy discussion about this.
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Unread 04-26-2017, 01:09 PM   #10
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That's cool that you think that. I agree with you in the current situation where we are forced to purchase a commodity (like ______ health insurance) from corporation. I disagree with you in the spirit of the Constitution and the part of the preamble that speaks about "promoting the general welfare" of the people that make up the United States. Do you not think that access to affordable health care is promoting the general welfare of the people that live in the United States?

I will gladly give up some of my hard earned wages if it means keeping another citizen alive. I live in a society in which I depend on the similar sacrifices of other individuals, not some libertarian diystopia in which every man is an island and should have to fend for themselves just to survive.

Maybe somebody who can better articulate the argument can lay the framework that there can be a healthy discussion about this.
It's not just something "I think." It's true. If it isn't true, then slavery is an acceptable practice.


I agree with you that access to affordable health care is in the interest of general welfare.

I disagree with you that government regulation is an effective way to affordable healthcare.

No hyperbole here about any sort of dystopia... We continuously screw with the free market, then declare that the free market has failed us and we need a more regulated solution. This happens in almost every area of our economy. Invariably, when we put a more regulated solution in place, costs go up rather than down.
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Unread 04-26-2017, 01:16 PM   #11
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The possibility of a "free market" is itself something created through regulatory practice.
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Taylor, you just got drive-by theologied.
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Unread 04-26-2017, 01:18 PM   #12
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False. The free market is what happens anyway. You can always count on someone to act in their own self-interest.
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Unread 04-26-2017, 03:05 PM   #13
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It's not just something "I think." It's true. If it isn't true, then slavery is an acceptable practice.


I agree with you that access to affordable health care is in the interest of general welfare.

I disagree with you that government regulation is an effective way to affordable healthcare.

No hyperbole here about any sort of dystopia... We continuously screw with the free market, then declare that the free market has failed us and we need a more regulated solution. This happens in almost every area of our economy. Invariably, when we put a more regulated solution in place, costs go up rather than down.
If not the government then what? I find it truly bizarre that we discuss health and well being in a commercialized tone and we don't question why we do so. Whether your mommy and daddy were rich capitalists or you were born into corporate slavery shouldn't matter when you go to the damned doctor.

I'm always amazed that people are paranoid at the thought of the government sending a suit into the operating room but they seem to turn a blind eye to some corporation sending in a bean counter doing the same thing. Your health should be between you and your doctor. PERIOD. Corporations have put their money grubbing hands all over it. The government is pretty much the only line of defense we have against that. It's unfortunate that they have aligned themselves with the corporations. Again, because that is our current climate I would tend to agree with you about some things. But, again, I would disagree with you in the spirit of our country's laws. We need the government to do something to return the health care to the people.
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Unread 04-26-2017, 07:24 PM   #14
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False. The free market is what happens anyway. You can always count on someone to act in their own self-interest.
I don't think you know what the 'free market' is actually referring to if you think this. What account of the free market are you referring to? Which economist are you drawing this from?
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Taylor, you just got drive-by theologied.
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Unread 04-26-2017, 08:27 PM   #15
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I don't think that you can count on people to act in their own self interest. Or rather, I hope that you cant. I think charity is an example of that. And that is how real healthcare has worked best. Free market focuses on profit. Government has an agenda. Charity hospitals, especially religion, focuses on people. I dont really know why the left hates them, since it is a single payer system open to everyone. The only reason I can think of is that the left doesnt control them. They are largely religion based. The right doesnt seem to like them either because they drain money. However they arent so vocal since their base is religious.

One thing that I am sure of is that insurance does not equal healthcare.
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