Go Back   Christian Guitar Forum > Community > General Discussion
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Arcade Mark Forums Read

Reply
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Unread 10-11-2016, 03:24 AM   #16
Lo, He comes...
 
IsaactheSyrian's Avatar
 

Joined: Apr 2002
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 8,915
paid
Are you a credobaptist, Zedman?

(Just curious. I can't quite tell from your post and Reformed folks tend to swing either way )

__________________
I believe, O Lord, and I confess, that You are truly the Christ, the Son of the Living God, who came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am the chief...
~ Ryan Isaac

Lo! How a rose e'er blooming from tender stem hath sprung,
Of Jesse's lineage coming, as seers of old hath sung,
It came a flower bright, amid the cold of winter,
When half-spent was the night.

Isaiah t'was foretold it, the rose I have in mind,
With Mary we behold it, the Virgin Mother kind,
To show God's love aright, she bore to us a Saviour,
When half-spent was the night.

O flower whose fragrance tender with gladness fills the air,
Dispel with glorious speldour the darkness everywhere,
True man, yet very God! From sin and death He saves us,
And lightens every load.

IsaactheSyrian is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Unread 10-11-2016, 09:35 AM   #17
Hipper Than Thou
Administrator
 
Leboman's Avatar
 

Joined: Aug 2003
Location: Geezerville
Posts: 56,191
Quote:
Originally Posted by zedman View Post
Probably not--it might happen if they had a legitimate reason to doubt the validity of the infant baptism.


I didn't say anything about the person confessing or professing faith--just meant if someone just showed up & said they wanted to baptized it wouldn't be instantaneous-just because they asked for it.
That was my main point--if they had a credible profession of faith that would start the process. And part of that is teaching them about what baptism is & what it means.
every time we have a baptism there is an explanation (At least a basic one) of what is happening & why.
Questions are invited after the service--and usually there are some.

If they didn't have a credible profession--it could still result in a baptism later on--as long as that profession came later

If someone walked in off the street and asked to be baptized my only real question would be to ask why he wanted to do it. I guess that there might be some answers that would cause me to pause.
__________________
Nothing (Without You)
Nothing (Without You) on YouTube
Granville Center Church of Christ Sermons
My German is pre-industrial and mostly religious.
Leboman is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10-17-2016, 04:52 PM   #18
Registered User
 
zedman's Avatar
 

Joined: May 2010
Location: A pilgrim on this Earth
Posts: 1,046
Quote:
Originally Posted by IsaactheSyrian View Post
Are you a credobaptist, Zedman?

(Just curious. I can't quite tell from your post and Reformed folks tend to swing either way )
I am a paedobaptist.

But I don't consider credobaptists as heretics, and I also believe most of us don't regard those who the opposite as heretics for that reason.
But I have encountered those who would.
__________________
I've been a pilgrim on this earth,since the day of my birth, I'm a long, long way from my home.
zedman is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10-17-2016, 05:29 PM   #19
Chur Bro
 
dogfood's Avatar
 

Joined: Feb 2004
Location: New Zealand, Fiji
Posts: 13,437
Send a message via MSN to dogfood
Quote:
Originally Posted by zedman View Post

I am a paedobaptist.

But I don't consider credobaptists as heretics, and I also believe most of us don't regard those who the opposite as heretics for that reason.
But I have encountered those who would.
What does credo mean?
__________________
dogfood is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10-17-2016, 05:34 PM   #20
Lo, He comes...
 
IsaactheSyrian's Avatar
 

Joined: Apr 2002
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 8,915
paid
Quote:
Originally Posted by dogfood View Post
What does credo mean?
Literally: "I believe" in Latin

In other words, credobaptism is the belief that only those who have made a conscious profession of faith must be baptized.
__________________
I believe, O Lord, and I confess, that You are truly the Christ, the Son of the Living God, who came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am the chief...
~ Ryan Isaac

Lo! How a rose e'er blooming from tender stem hath sprung,
Of Jesse's lineage coming, as seers of old hath sung,
It came a flower bright, amid the cold of winter,
When half-spent was the night.

Isaiah t'was foretold it, the rose I have in mind,
With Mary we behold it, the Virgin Mother kind,
To show God's love aright, she bore to us a Saviour,
When half-spent was the night.

O flower whose fragrance tender with gladness fills the air,
Dispel with glorious speldour the darkness everywhere,
True man, yet very God! From sin and death He saves us,
And lightens every load.

IsaactheSyrian is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-25-2017, 09:39 AM   #21
A Slave of Christ
 
skypeace's Avatar
 

Joined: May 2017
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 21
I believe water baptism is an outward expression of the internal experience of regeneration. It is not necessary to salvation, although when possible to realize is an emblem of salvation and obedience. I believe the ritual has no power in and of its self.

It has meaning only to the truly Born Again, otherwise you might as well just take a bath or go swimming.
__________________
"....play skillfully upon the strings...." Psalms 33:3
skypeace is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-25-2017, 06:45 PM   #22
Lo, He comes...
 
IsaactheSyrian's Avatar
 

Joined: Apr 2002
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 8,915
paid
I find it interesting that so many people in this thread feel the need to specify 'water baptism'. The New Testament never uses such verbiage. Instead, we simply see the Apostle Peter saying "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit." (Acts 2:38). He doesn't say "repent and be baptized in water as an inward sign of what has already happened to you in which your sins were previously forgiven". He says 'repent and be baptized for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the Holy Spirit'

This indicates two things:

1) Forgiveness of sins occurs with or after baptism
2) Receiving the gift of the Holy Spirit occurs with or after baptism.

To return to the purpose of this thread: someone mentioned the Ethiopian eunuch and how he was baptized fairly immediately, without a lengthy catechumenate. To this, I would respond with the following:

- the eunuch was already a worshiper of the Living God
- he was already highly conversant in the Holy Scriptures (to wit: the Old Testament)
- even the eunuch had a period of catechism (albeit a rather short one, the text seems to let on that it may have taken a few hours at most)
- the eunuch was catechized by none other than an Apostle, directly ordained by Jesus Christ: St. Philip.

One of the errors that I think some people make is expecting the Church in the 3rd or 6th or 21st century to look like the Church in the middle of the 1st century. The social circumstances have dramatically changed, the Church has expanded, and learned from past experiences. In particular, the long catechumenate was intended to make sure that people who were becoming Christians from a society that was full of deeply wicked and demonic spiritual practices (and still is, a fact which the Orthodox Church recognizes by the fact that in the rite of admission to the catechumenate, the presbyter (=priest) reads three lengthy exorcisms and asks the catechumen to face the west - the direction of the sunset and darkness - and renounce Satan, and to spit upon him) understood what they were getting themselves into and were prepared to live as a Christian and not discredit or scandalize the body of Christ by their public wicked deeds. The first - understanding what they were getting themselves into in order to reduce the likelihood of apostasy - is even alluded to by the Apostle St. Peter (2 Peter 2:20-21) as being a worse state for a person than never having been a Christian in the first place.

Basically, the Church is no longer directly under the governance of those directly ordained by Christ. The successors to the Apostles, the Bishops of the Church, have authority to teach and preach and are sanctified by the Spirit to lead the Church, but they are not the Apostles. It's reasonable to have safeguards and a process in place.
__________________
I believe, O Lord, and I confess, that You are truly the Christ, the Son of the Living God, who came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am the chief...
~ Ryan Isaac

Lo! How a rose e'er blooming from tender stem hath sprung,
Of Jesse's lineage coming, as seers of old hath sung,
It came a flower bright, amid the cold of winter,
When half-spent was the night.

Isaiah t'was foretold it, the rose I have in mind,
With Mary we behold it, the Virgin Mother kind,
To show God's love aright, she bore to us a Saviour,
When half-spent was the night.

O flower whose fragrance tender with gladness fills the air,
Dispel with glorious speldour the darkness everywhere,
True man, yet very God! From sin and death He saves us,
And lightens every load.

IsaactheSyrian is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-25-2017, 11:52 PM   #23
A Slave of Christ
 
skypeace's Avatar
 

Joined: May 2017
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 21
Water is implied in the usage of the word baptism as it was in the weekly cleansing for the Hebrews, unless the baptism of The Holy Spirit was implied in which case it is indicated as such.

You can't teach conversion no matter how hard you try, for one to be discipled they must first be regenerated. Baptism is for The Born Again. Just like many will never understand what John is saying when in the 1st chapter of The Book of The Revelation he states, "I was in the Spirit on The Lord's Day." Yes we do distinguish between Holy Spirit baptism and water baptism.
__________________
"....play skillfully upon the strings...." Psalms 33:3
skypeace is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-26-2017, 12:29 AM   #24
Lo, He comes...
 
IsaactheSyrian's Avatar
 

Joined: Apr 2002
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 8,915
paid
Quote:
Originally Posted by skypeace View Post
Water is implied in the usage of the word baptism as it was in the weekly cleansing for the Hebrews, unless the baptism of The Holy Spirit was implied in which case it is indicated as such.
Right. So why use the verbiage 'water baptism'?

Quote:
You can't teach conversion no matter how hard you try, for one to be discipled they must first be regenerated. Baptism is for The Born Again. Just like many will never understand what John is saying when in the 1st chapter of The Book of The Revelation he states, "I was in the Spirit on The Lord's Day." Yes we do distinguish between Holy Spirit baptism and water baptism.
You're bringing a lot of unstated assumptions to the game here. I'd ask you to set them out, but that'd risk this thread being whisked off to Theology.

Who is the 'we' that you refer to?
__________________
I believe, O Lord, and I confess, that You are truly the Christ, the Son of the Living God, who came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am the chief...
~ Ryan Isaac

Lo! How a rose e'er blooming from tender stem hath sprung,
Of Jesse's lineage coming, as seers of old hath sung,
It came a flower bright, amid the cold of winter,
When half-spent was the night.

Isaiah t'was foretold it, the rose I have in mind,
With Mary we behold it, the Virgin Mother kind,
To show God's love aright, she bore to us a Saviour,
When half-spent was the night.

O flower whose fragrance tender with gladness fills the air,
Dispel with glorious speldour the darkness everywhere,
True man, yet very God! From sin and death He saves us,
And lightens every load.


Last edited by IsaactheSyrian; 07-26-2017 at 01:37 AM.
IsaactheSyrian is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-26-2017, 07:03 AM   #25
Hipper Than Thou
Administrator
 
Leboman's Avatar
 

Joined: Aug 2003
Location: Geezerville
Posts: 56,191
Quote:
Originally Posted by skypeace View Post
Water is implied in the usage of the word baptism as it was in the weekly cleansing for the Hebrews, unless the baptism of The Holy Spirit was implied in which case it is indicated as such.

You can't teach conversion no matter how hard you try, for one to be discipled they must first be regenerated. Baptism is for The Born Again. Just like many will never understand what John is saying when in the 1st chapter of The Book of The Revelation he states, "I was in the Spirit on The Lord's Day." Yes we do distinguish between Holy Spirit baptism and water baptism.

There is only one baptism according to Scripture.


4 For there is one body and one Spirit, just as you have been called to one glorious hope for the future. 5 There is one Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6 one God and Father of all,
who is over all, in all, and living through all.


Ephesians 4:4-6 (NLT)


As far as baptism being for the born again some would suggest that baptism is part of the process that makes you born again. But as Isaac said, that conversation will land all this in Theology.
__________________
Nothing (Without You)
Nothing (Without You) on YouTube
Granville Center Church of Christ Sermons
My German is pre-industrial and mostly religious.

Last edited by Leboman; 07-26-2017 at 07:14 AM.
Leboman is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-26-2017, 08:42 AM   #26
assistant regional mgr.
 
Dwight Schrute's Avatar
 

Joined: Apr 2003
Location: Scranton, PA
Posts: 5,538
I disagree. And you are all heretics.

Oh wait, it isn't in the Theology forum yet...
__________________


Awesome Blog
Dwight Schrute is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:34 AM.


Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2