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Unread 02-17-2016, 04:59 PM   #76
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Amen brother. I reached that point about ten or fifteen years ago. I'm a huge KC Chiefs fan, and I would let whether they win or lose destroy my day sometimes. Finally came to understand how childish that was, and began to enjoy all sports for the entertainment value that they are intended to be. It also allows me to enjoy games more when I don't have a favorite team playing in the match.

Go Tarheels!
A game (one that I'm not even playing) isn't worth getting THAT upset about. It just isn't.


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Unread 02-17-2016, 10:40 PM   #77
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Roy Williams looked like he had never coached a day in his life tonight.

Brice Johnson should have had 50 points and they didn't get the ball to him when it mattered at the end.

This is the worst choke job I've seen from a UNC team in over twenty years and the burden falls on the coach. K coached him under the table. K is killing him at recruiting.

I'm wondering what Roy really has left to offer. For better or worse, he's still holds to that Dean Smith philosophy of coaching. The problem is that the game has changed and it doesn't work. Dean saw the writing on the wall and left before he had to change who he is. K has adapted and is winning. Roy better see the light soon or his loyal fans are going to get snippy.

Myself included.

FWIW...it's not just Roy either. K is 28-14 against UNC since Dean Smith retired.
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Unread 02-17-2016, 11:55 PM   #78
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We still follow Roy in these parts. and the other day a local KC sports talk show host was wondering if he's close to retiring. The grade scandal and recruiting issues may have him ready to let someone else face the pressures. I have always admired Williams, even when he left KU suddenly. He had issues with his athletic director at KU and politics is always hard to deal with, when you have other options, and his true home was in North Carolina. One of the things I always liked about him was he always had a clean program and would face unruly players immediately. Quite a few talented players left KU on transfers after various off-court issues. We were very fortunate to land Bill Self when Roy left.
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Unread 02-18-2016, 10:20 AM   #79
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We still follow Roy in these parts. and the other day a local KC sports talk show host was wondering if he's close to retiring. The grade scandal and recruiting issues may have him ready to let someone else face the pressures. I have always admired Williams, even when he left KU suddenly. He had issues with his athletic director at KU and politics is always hard to deal with, when you have other options, and his true home was in North Carolina. One of the things I always liked about him was he always had a clean program and would face unruly players immediately. Quite a few talented players left KU on transfers after various off-court issues. We were very fortunate to land Bill Self when Roy left.

A couple of thoughts. Although the academic issue does affect Roy somewhat, it really doesn't have anything to do with him. One could suggest it has hurt recruiting but I think the problem with recruiting at UNC is that they haven't changed with the game. They still want those 3-4 year guys who are going do the university proud. That might work at the mid-major schools but it ain't happening with the big names. College ball has basically turned into the other NBA Development League. Kentucky and Dook (and others) have figured it out and are playing the game. UNC still thinks guys are going to come in and perform from Day One and then stick around. It just doesn't happen like that anymore. Dean saw it coming. I remember when Stackhouse and Wallace left after two. We were stunned. When Jamison and Carter left early it was bad but not a shocker. Now, when Ed Davis, Marvin Williams, or Brandan Wright leave early, we barely shake our heads. Unless Roy figures out how to get those one and dones and adjusts his system to accommdate them, UNC will remain a good (not great) program.

Now to Roy...where do I begin? Honestly, I was over him the first time he was offered the job and he declined. I wasn't mad at him, I understood why he stayed. I actually respected it. I didn't care much for his "Right now I don't give a s**t about Carolina" comment but I understood why he said it. His team, the team he loved, had just lost and he was being pestered about UNC. I would have been a little snippy too. In all honesty, Dean Smith caused the problem by leaving the way he did. There was no warning. There was no time to properly search for a coach. On top of that he had the hair-brained idea (one of his true blunders) of insisting that Bill Guthridge be given the job. Yes, it made a nice PR story. Yes, it gave Gut his chance. Yes, Gut took the team (DEAN'S team) to the Final Four. But he was only six years younger than Dean. No one believed it was going to be long term. It was a nice parting gesture (a STUPID one) to a loyal friend. It set the program back a decade. Recruiting DIED those three seasons. Don't believe me? You know why Jason Williams went to Dook? Because UNC never offered him. He was a top rated guard who DREAMED of playing in Chapel Hill and we let him slip away to DOOK!!!! Instead we ended up with guys like Jonathan Holmes. We did get Joe Forte but he ended up being a head case. The next year was even worse. Brian Morrison and Adam Boone, you remember them, right? Really, Dean's unexpected exit and Gut's three years on cruise control mortally wounded the program. People blame Doherty but he inherited that mess when Roy decided (upon Guthridge's surprise exit) that he didn't give a s**t about Carolina. Doh (he'll always be Doh to me) took the job when EVERYONE else refused. Legend has it that he didn't want it either until former teammate Michael Jordan put some pressure on him. What was he supposed to do? He ended up leaving Notre Dame (a DREAM job for a good Catholic kid like Doherty) and stepped in to drama he just wasn't prepared for. He had a good (not great) team his first year and then it all collapsed. Forte left, Gut's recruits proved they were mediocre players at best, and the two bright spots, Ronald Curry and Julius Peppers, decided to commit totally to football. Doh had to throw a recruiting class together and ended up with some good role players. Guys that ended up getting blamed for the 8-20 season. A season that cost Doherty his job. Well, that nut-job Rashad McCants didn't help things.

Fortunately, Roy swooped in and saved UNC basketball. Well, that's what the legend says, right? He won that first title with Matt Doherty's recruits. People seem to forget that. Doh is the guy who destroyed all that Dean built and Roy had to come in and put it back together. Years later we find out that the two guys who trashed Doherty the most (McCants and Sean Mean) were both head cases and washed out in the NBA due to attitude and work ethic issues. Perhaps it wasn't all Doherty to begin with. And I will admit, I was tickled to see Roy back in Chapel Hill. I drank the baby blue Kool Aid and thought that we were going to be THE premiere program again. 2005 NCAA title arrived and we all looked around and smiled. But, to those paying attention, the cracks were already starting to appear. Roy did snag some good guys and fortunately for fans, they willed themselves to a title in 2009. But look at what has happened since then. We get some good guys, but not the BEST guys. Harrison Barnes is one of the exceptions. We stole him right out of K's palm. However, most of the guys who were hyped coming in have not delivered. Brice Johnson is proving to be the exception to that right now but he can't win it alone. People joke that Hansbrough carried the 2009 team to a title but he had some help.

I know I'm still a little sore about last night's game. It always sucks when Dook wins and especially sucks when they win against us. But I believe everything I just typed. I don't think Roy can do this anymore. However, the university will allow him to stick around for as long as he wants and I have bad feeling that when he leaves, it will be a surprise, just like when Dean left. Who in the Carolina Family can take the reigns right now? I don't see anyone that I would feel comfortable with. Hubert Davis is on the sidelines now but he's spent the last several years trading barbs with guys on TV. Is he really coaching material? Jeff Lebo (who is two years older than me) is at East Carolina University but he isn't exactly burning things up. Who are they looking at? I have to hope they are already looking. Roy ain't getting any younger and his health issues are starting to show. I mean, he passed out in a game the other night. That's GOT to be throwing up some flags...right?

Who would I like to see in Chapel Hill? Ha. You'll laugh. You'll think I'm crazy. Most UNC fans will want to burn me as a heretic. I think the school ought to gently suggest that Roy call it quits. I think there is enough evidence (some circumstantial) that supports the idea that it is time. THEN...I think they need to scrape up every dollar available and offer to buy out Shaka Smart's contract from Texas. Pay him what K makes at Dook (about 9 million a year BTW) and bring him to the Hill. Reinvent UNC basketball and give it a future. The noble concept of the Carolina Way is dead. Heck, they're being investigated for academic fraud on a university wide scale. Dean is dead. Even Gut is dead. The good old days are over and they're never coming back. There is NO Carolina Way. Let's adjust and play by the new rules. Smart is young and if we could get him in while K is still at Dook, we'll have the upper hand when he finally runs out of fresh virgin blood to bathe in and is forced to retire. The problem there is that up until recently, K didn't really have anyone from the Dook family that was capable of taking over. Now that those little butt clowns Hurley and Wojo are actually starting to make some noise, they might be in better shape when K leaves than we will when Roy does. We need DRASTIC change. I know it will never happen, but THAT is the kind of thinking needed to make UNC great again. At this point, I don't know if it is even possible. I don't think anything major will come from the NCAA investigation because it wasn't a "basketball" problem. It affected students all across the board, and many of them weren't even athletes. It's not like they created a course of study especially for athletes. They did some shady stuff but it wasn't BECAUSE of basketball. Basketball just happened to benefit from it too.

Wow...did I really post that much? I must be more upset than I thought.



Here is one grumpy old man's opinion. When Gut split in 1999 and no one in the "family" wanted the job, we should have called Tubby Smith. That guy could have righted the ship before it totally capsized. He's a year younger than Roy. However, had he come in after Guthridge, he would now be in his seventeenth year. He recruits. He coaches. He wins. Look what he's done since becoming a head coach. I know he's struggling at Texas Tech right now but he's trying to rebuild the mess Billy Gillispie made. Imagine what UNC ball would have looked like for the past 20 years with Tubby Smith. Would we have lost some of the recruits? Probably. But truthfully, many of them came to UNC because of the name on the jersey. Some of them will still come for that name. I just fear that those numbers will get smaller and smaller unless there is a drastic change. Replacing Roy with a former player who "gets" the Carolina Way will only keep the wheels spinning longer as the competition races away.
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Unread 02-18-2016, 11:27 AM   #80
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Very insightful post from someone that obviously loves his team. Smart is already making Texas better, and Texas sure has no problem paying their coaches. With the connection between KU and NC, I may offer a different option; a former player at KU that has been making strides in coaching, Maryland's Mark Turgeon. He still has quite a few years left, and I totally believe NC is a much better coaching position. He's proven he can recruit, and selling a kid on Carolina should never be too hard. He played for Larry Brown at KU, and assisted with Roy's early classes in the early years.

Bill Self often gets the one-and-dones, and fans have problems with seeing them sit on the bench, but you are right, they aren't always ready. Check Diallio and Carlton Bragg this season are projected to leave after one year, but barely see the court, because seasoned players outperform them in practice, and play defense. I think the NBA (which already uses college as a development league) would be wise to change policy, because some owner will take a flier on players that simply aren't ready, and they continue to lose those bets. But that's another discussion for another day.

The BEST thing about college basketball vs. football; the tourney. You get hot, you can take it all! I'm ready for March~
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Unread 02-18-2016, 11:43 AM   #81
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What's insane this season is that the most hyped player might not even get to the tourney. I wonder if Ben Simmons wishes he picked another school?

“He’s a terrific talent," said one former committee member who asked not to be identified. “But at the end of the day, it’s not an individual sport. I cannot in my five years remember a single time anyone has said, ‘Wouldn’t it be great to have Player X in the tournament because it would be great for the event?’ It’s never happened before. Ever."

Full article HERE.
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Unread 02-18-2016, 11:46 AM   #82
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Very insightful post from someone that obviously loves his team. Smart is already making Texas better, and Texas sure has no problem paying their coaches. With the connection between KU and NC, I may offer a different option; a former player at KU that has been making strides in coaching, Maryland's Mark Turgeon. He still has quite a few years left, and I totally believe NC is a much better coaching position. He's proven he can recruit, and selling a kid on Carolina should never be too hard. He played for Larry Brown at KU, and assisted with Roy's early classes in the early years.

Bill Self often gets the one-and-dones, and fans have problems with seeing them sit on the bench, but you are right, they aren't always ready. Check Diallio and Carlton Bragg this season are projected to leave after one year, but barely see the court, because seasoned players outperform them in practice, and play defense. I think the NBA (which already uses college as a development league) would be wise to change policy, because some owner will take a flier on players that simply aren't ready, and they continue to lose those bets. But that's another discussion for another day.

The BEST thing about college basketball vs. football; the tourney. You get hot, you can take it all! I'm ready for March~
Truthfully, I have no confidence in the powers that be. They will look for someone "in the family" whether he is the best coach for the team or not. That's the "Carolina Way" and I don't see it ending anytime soon.

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Unread 02-20-2016, 03:41 PM   #83
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UNC thrashes Miami to stop atop the ACC. Dook loses to Louisville.

That should surprise me, but it doesn't.
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Unread 02-25-2016, 07:37 AM   #84
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UNC beat NC State by 12 lat night. They had moments where they played really well but they have GOT to be more consistent. Of course, if it hadn't been for Cat Barber's 32 points UNC would have won by 20+. He had to put up insane numbers just to lose by double digits.
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Unread 02-25-2016, 02:23 PM   #85
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A couple of thoughts. Although the academic issue does affect Roy somewhat, it really doesn't have anything to do with him. One could suggest it has hurt recruiting but I think the problem with recruiting at UNC is that they haven't changed with the game. They still want those 3-4 year guys who are going do the university proud. That might work at the mid-major schools but it ain't happening with the big names. College ball has basically turned into the other NBA Development League. Kentucky and Dook (and others) have figured it out and are playing the game. UNC still thinks guys are going to come in and perform from Day One and then stick around. It just doesn't happen like that anymore. Dean saw it coming. I remember when Stackhouse and Wallace left after two. We were stunned. When Jamison and Carter left early it was bad but not a shocker. Now, when Ed Davis, Marvin Williams, or Brandan Wright leave early, we barely shake our heads. Unless Roy figures out how to get those one and dones and adjusts his system to accommdate them, UNC will remain a good (not great) program...

Who would I like to see in Chapel Hill? Ha. You'll laugh. You'll think I'm crazy. Most UNC fans will want to burn me as a heretic. I think the school ought to gently suggest that Roy call it quits. I think there is enough evidence (some circumstantial) that supports the idea that it is time. THEN...I think they need to scrape up every dollar available and offer to buy out Shaka Smart's contract from Texas. Pay him what K makes at Dook (about 9 million a year BTW) and bring him to the Hill. Reinvent UNC basketball and give it a future. The noble concept of the Carolina Way is dead. Heck, they're being investigated for academic fraud on a university wide scale. Dean is dead. Even Gut is dead. The good old days are over and they're never coming back. There is NO Carolina Way. Let's adjust and play by the new rules. Smart is young and if we could get him in while K is still at Dook, we'll have the upper hand when he finally runs out of fresh virgin blood to bathe in and is forced to retire. The problem there is that up until recently, K didn't really have anyone from the Dook family that was capable of taking over. Now that those little butt clowns Hurley and Wojo are actually starting to make some noise, they might be in better shape when K leaves than we will when Roy does. We need DRASTIC change. I know it will never happen, but THAT is the kind of thinking needed to make UNC great again. At this point, I don't know if it is even possible.
Indiana, where I now live, is amazing basketball country. The commitment and knowledge and skill, even at just the high school level is breathtaking. But IU has never been the same after losing Bob Knight. He left in 2000 and since then they've fumbled their way through. It's not quite the same at UNC but both schools are still missing The Great One and have historical practices that keep them from being their best today.

My school, Arizona, had a similar problem. Our Great One, Lute Olson, led the program for 25 years and did a great job on every level until his wife died, he had a stroke, and things fell apart. He was an awesome person (still is) and a great coach (at one time more tournament wins than anyone besides Wooden) but when he left we had some bad years. UA struggled then saw the only way to move forward was to bring in someone young and tough, not polished, not a statesman, but someone who could win. Enter Sean Miller. Seven years later the program's moving in the right direction, 25-30 wins per year, people are happy, and the future is very bright.

It would be foolish to think IU, UNC, or UA will ever replace The Great One, but the job is to bring the program back to relevance, then to respectability, then to championships, then to greatness...in a new way for a new era.
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Unread 02-26-2016, 10:09 AM   #86
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If Grayson Allen played for any school other than Dook, he would already be suspended. He's now deliberately tripped an opposing player in two different games. How is he getting away with it?
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Unread 02-26-2016, 10:15 AM   #87
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It would be foolish to think IU, UNC, or UA will ever replace The Great One, but the job is to bring the program back to relevance, then to respectability, then to championships, then to greatness...in a new way for a new era.
I think the problem at UNC is that some believe they have replaced The Great One. Roy came in and won a title in his second year. Nevermind the fact that it was pretty much Matt Doherty's team he won with. He won a second one four years later but honestly, that doesn't happen without a guy named Hansbrough. Since then (it's only been seven years) the atmosphere has changed drastically. It may not seem like it to the casual observer but fans see and understand that things have shifted. I don't know that Roy understands that either. He's hardheaded and loyal...almost to a fault.
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Unread 02-26-2016, 03:57 PM   #88
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If Grayson Allen played for any school other than Dook, he would already be suspended. He's now deliberately tripped an opposing player in two different games. How is he getting away with it?
I believe you might be right. I also know the big name programs can also sometimes garner extra attention in matters like this. There could (and probably are) be other players that use every dirty trick they can get away with, on other teams, but they don't have the large spotlight on them. There does seem to be a history with that type players at Duke however.
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Unread 02-26-2016, 04:03 PM   #89
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I see where Sean Miller was complaining about court storming, and while I love the fact that fans can celebrate a big win, (or any win for that matter) I also recognize where this is a powder keg just waiting for a spark. Emotions run high and a young, frustrated athlete provoked, could respond very ugly and who knows what might transpire. Just last season KU lost at KSU and a fan intentionally sought out a KU player to "accidently bump" during the celebration. Traylor (the KU player) didn't respond, and just walked away, but these type situations are just asking for trouble.

There are many that take the stance that the field/court are for participants only and no fans should violate that space, and I can understand that position. Not sure how you get schools to enforce that philosophy, but fines and other sanctions could make a difference. What say you, the CGR fanbase?
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Unread 02-26-2016, 05:05 PM   #90
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I see where Sean Miller was complaining about court storming, and while I love the fact that fans can celebrate a big win, (or any win for that matter) I also recognize where this is a powder keg just waiting for a spark. Emotions run high and a young, frustrated athlete provoked, could respond very ugly and who knows what might transpire. Just last season KU lost at KSU and a fan intentionally sought out a KU player to "accidently bump" during the celebration. Traylor (the KU player) didn't respond, and just walked away, but these type situations are just asking for trouble.

There are many that take the stance that the field/court are for participants only and no fans should violate that space, and I can understand that position. Not sure how you get schools to enforce that philosophy, but fines and other sanctions could make a difference. What say you, the CGR fanbase?
I thought maybe Miller was just griping until someone on ESPN said that opposing fans have stormed the court TEN OF THE LAST ELEVEN TIMES UA has lost a PAC road game. This makes me think three things. First, it's kind of a compliment that the rest of the conference thinks beating AZ is such a big deal. Second, this has got to be in the Wildcats' heads at the end of tight games (Oh s___, if I miss this free throw are they gonna do it AGAIN??) and that sense of humiliation could directly lead to losses not decided on the court. Third, one of these days some 19 year old is going to hit back and the whole world will blame him and Miller rather than the fans or the university that didn't control them.

I think a serious fine (20K the first, 35K, 50K) might do the trick, but it won't be effective unless the various administrators take it seriously enough to change their cultures.
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