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Unread 10-02-2015, 06:39 AM   #1
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Transgenderism: What is actually happening?

I honestly don't know and don't understand.

If these are fundamentally mental issues, imbalances between the whole of the body and the particulars of the brain (chemical imbalances, or some such), then why is surgery or hormone therapy the go to?

Has there been much experimentation with fixing transgendered people through fixing or trying to align the brain with the sexual reality of the individual?

If that hasnt been looked into, why not? Is it an impossibility, or is it merely the politics of the body going on here?

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Taylor, you just got drive-by theologied.
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Unread 10-02-2015, 07:41 AM   #2
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Lol, I was about to start a thread asking the same thing.
In my less fancy way to say it:

1. Why does the World see the body as flawed and not the brain?

2. Why do Christians see the brain as flawed and not the body?

3. What does science say?

4. What does the bible say?

sorry for intruding in your thread. Thought it was related so I also post my questions here
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Unread 10-02-2015, 08:12 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by andrecl View Post
Lol, I was about to start a thread asking the same thing.
In my less fancy way to say it:

1. Why does the World see the body as flawed and not the brain?

2. Why do Christians see the brain as flawed and not the body?

3. What does science say?

4. What does the bible say?

sorry for intruding in your thread. Thought it was related so I also post my questions here
No! I'm glad I'm not the only one perplexed.

I have wondered about this for a while, but recently saw a viral post about a 14 year old boy who identifies as a girl and received hormones in the mail. This is sloppy parenting, IMO, especially as stats have shown that around 75% of teens going through this grow out of it by adulthood.
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Taylor, you just got drive-by theologied.
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Unread 10-02-2015, 09:13 AM   #4
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I want to learn more about this as well. I heard a claim once (no idea where it came from or if it's true) that the majority of transgender women are still attracted to women and identify as lesbians. If that is true, that adds a whole lot of strangeness to the issue. But like I said, no idea if that's true or not. There seems to be very little concrete information out there, at least not that I have come across.
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Unread 10-02-2015, 09:47 AM   #5
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I've considered starting a topic on this as well but shied away from it, so thanks Taylor.

I also saw the viral post about the 14-year-old receiving her first round of estrogen treatments (I will refer to her by her preferred pronouns). I don't know that I would jump to calling it sloppy parenting, as I'm sure this girl's parents are far more educated on the subject than I am and have made the decision that they feel is best for their child. My understanding is that in children who show severe gender dysphoria, there is the option to have a hormone implant placed which simply delays the onset of puberty, pushing the decision about transitioning further down the road. This is done because if the child decides to go through with transitioning, it is far easier to do so if they haven't gone through the biological changes that accompany puberty for their assigned-at-birth sex. This kid had that done a couple of years ago and is now proceeding with estrogen therapy.

I don't mean to make this thread entirely about one specific case, though.

One of the things I'm wondering about is which specific scriptural passages we consider applicable to transgender individuals, gender dysphoria, transitioning, etc. It's pretty clear which passages are applicable in the discussions regarding homosexuality, but it's less clear to me on transgender issues.
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Unread 10-02-2015, 10:26 AM   #6
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I must agree with Leboman. We have issues here in Denmark with creepy men using the womens (and small girls) changing rooms in public pools because "they fell like a woman". And as much as the women complain, nothing is done in the name of "political correctness".

I also agree that if you have male genitalia, you are a man in my eyes (and vise versa).
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Unread 10-02-2015, 10:49 AM   #7
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I tend to see it as a small gesture of goodwill towards transgender individuals to refer to them by their chosen name and the pronouns they deem appropriate. It doesn't take too much effort on my part, but it makes a huge difference in making transgender individuals feel that they are being treated with compassion and respect as people (or so I understand, anyway).
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Unread 10-02-2015, 10:53 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by mtlmouth View Post
I tend to see it as a small gesture of goodwill towards transgender individuals to refer to them by their chosen name and the pronouns they deem appropriate. It doesn't take too much effort on my part, but it makes a huge difference in making transgender individuals feel that they are being treated with compassion and respect as people (or so I understand, anyway).
If I am dealing one-on-one with someone claiming to be transgendered, I will most likely avoid the use of pronouns and call him or her by his or her chosen name.
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Unread 10-02-2015, 11:03 AM   #9
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I'll even go so far as to say this, removing one's genitalia doesn't make one the opposite sex either. I understand that there is a legitimate issue when dealing with those born with both sets (hermaphrodism) but that's an entirely different discussion.
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Unread 10-02-2015, 11:21 AM   #10
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I honestly don't know and don't understand.

If these are fundamentally mental issues, imbalances between the whole of the body and the particulars of the brain (chemical imbalances, or some such), then why is surgery or hormone therapy the go to?
I have read a few articles on this and I honestly only think politics is the answer here as to why.

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Has there been much experimentation with fixing transgendered people through fixing or trying to align the brain with the sexual reality of the individual?
Honestly, I am not sure we know enough about it or the brain to do this consistently. Without going into any moral issues, the sheer percentage of suicide in the transgender community both pre and post surgery should be terrifying. I don't know. Personally, I think it should be treated like other delusional disorders myself. (Whether you are physiologically male or female is usually a binary, with the exception of the intersexed, which is a separate issue that is often wrongly conflated here.)
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If that hasnt been looked into, why not? Is it an impossibility, or is it merely the politics of the body going on here?
I think it is politics. To me it seems like a delusional belief that has a negative impact on their life. (looking at suicide and depression rates for the transgendered.)

I believe transgenderism is as it is approached harmful. I think the medical and psychiatric research bears that out. (look at the rate of concurrent psychiatric disorders, suicide rates, pre and post transition.)

The current political climate is embracing the transgender movement which is ironic and sad to me. It is ironic, because it is in direct opposition to any sort of feminist ideas and is extremely gender rigid. Sad, because all too often I feel as if I am talking to someone who feels as if they must match a stereotype to be themselves.

I completely avoid pronouns when dealing with them one on one.

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I'll even go so far as to say this, removing one's genitalia doesn't make one the opposite sex either. I understand that there is a legitimate issue when dealing with those born with both sets (hermaphrodism) but that's an entirely different discussion.
Agreed. On both counts. It might make one like Origen though...

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Originally Posted by mtlmouth View Post
One of the things I'm wondering about is which specific scriptural passages we consider applicable to transgender individuals, gender dysphoria, transitioning, etc. It's pretty clear which passages are applicable in the discussions regarding homosexuality, but it's less clear to me on transgender issues.
I have found that really hard. However, I am finding that I am meeting a pretty fair number of transgendered people in all aspects of my life. The suicide rates, and suicide attempts are just awful, and it isn't that they are necessarily bullied. Some are celebrated and still are attempting to take their own lives. It is sad, and I wish the medical community could take a hard look at this subject objectively.
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Unread 10-02-2015, 02:23 PM   #11
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I don't have time to formulate a good response yet, but I'd like to throw out a few little caveats.

First of all, sex and gender are two different things and should be addressed as such when speaking about transgenderism.

Second of all, I think BillSPrestonEsq is on the right track with gender roles, stereotypes and fulfilling those things. I think the Western world would benefit greatly from considering current transgender issues in light of other cultures that have a different take on gender and sex.

Third, I wonder if the Biblical accounts of eunuchs would be beneficial for discussing transgenderism.
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Unread 10-02-2015, 03:17 PM   #12
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I

Third, I wonder if the Biblical accounts of eunuchs would be beneficial for discussing transgenderism.
Wondering that too actually. While I semi-jestingly mentioned Origen. It was only in partial Jest. Eunechs in the ancient world is a complex and weird subject.

I don't buy gender and sex being actually different. It seems to be shorthand for cultural expression of the gender difference being different.
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Unread 10-02-2015, 03:36 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by BillSPrestonEsq View Post

Wondering that too actually. While I semi-jestingly mentioned Origen. It was only in partial Jest. Eunechs in the ancient world is a complex and weird subject.

I don't buy gender and sex being actually different. It seems to be shorthand for cultural expression of the gender difference being different.
I need to track down the source, but I remember in passing reading some stuff by Dale Martin wherein he discusses gender in ancient Rome as being on a spectrum of sorts.

Of course, making a comparison directly with issues going on today may be anachronistic. But, if I find it I will check it out and report back here.
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Originally Posted by Demon_Hunter View Post
Taylor, you just got drive-by theologied.
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Unread 10-02-2015, 03:43 PM   #14
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I need to track down the source, but I remember in passing reading some stuff by Dale Martin wherein he discusses gender in ancient Rome as being on a spectrum of sorts.

Of course, making a comparison directly with issues going on today may be anachronistic. But, if I find it I will check it out and report back here.
I don't know about Rome as much, but in Greece it definitely was insofar as sexual preference was concerned. IIRC, bisexuality was more common than strict homosexuality though. I suspect with Rome's obsession with patralineal bloodlines this might be the case as well. However, that is inference from what I do know and could very well be wrong. However, I think gender being viewed as a spectrum when applied to individuals is rather strange and stereotypical.

I mean by it not being different, I don't think you can separate the experience of being a woman genetically from your culture's construct of what it is to be a woman, for example. In short, it could devolve into a case of nature versus nurture if you take my meaning.
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Last edited by BillSPrestonEsq; 10-02-2015 at 04:08 PM.
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Unread 10-02-2015, 03:54 PM   #15
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Third, I wonder if the Biblical accounts of eunuchs would be beneficial for discussing transgenderism.
I don't think we have enough information to know.
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