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Unread 10-02-2015, 06:17 AM   #61
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So, is there a candidate that a Christian of a particular style would find acceptable?

Well, one that doesn't worship Mammon, and constantly insult entire races, not to mention not give a ____ about helping refugees. Or constantly insult everyone, calling them losers. Or alienate even conservative women. Those are a few starts.

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Unread 10-02-2015, 11:26 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by The Chunkster View Post

Well, one that doesn't worship Mammon, and constantly insult entire races, not to mention not give a ____ about helping refugees. Or constantly insult everyone, calling them losers. Or alienate even conservative women. Those are a few starts.
It is unfortunate that you don't have any alternatives that a Christian of any stride can support. I suppose in that glaring absense, I'll just have to support the candidate I feel will lead the country the best.
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Unread 10-02-2015, 11:45 AM   #63
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It is unfortunate that you don't have any alternatives that a Christian of any stride can support. I suppose in that glaring absense, I'll just have to support the candidate I feel will lead the country the best.
You were given an answer, one you didn't like. Oh well.

Honestly, I don't care who you vote for. Caution was given regarding Trump, who is probably the snakiest and least Jesus-like of any of the candidates.

Whether it matters how Jesus-like a candidate is certainly is up for debate. But, hell, beyond that the guy is woefully incompetent on any of the issues he has spoken about. He handwaves, calls people losers, and says a lot without saying anything.

Of course, I have a real difficulty finding any worthy candidates. And, _my_ particular form of Christianity is much more excited by Sanders than any others. But _your_ understanding of Christianity will probably not lead you to that same excitement.
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Taylor, you just got drive-by theologied.
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Unread 10-02-2015, 11:48 AM   #64
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Seriously. I'm getting more and more terrified that people actually seem to be taking Donald Trump seriously as a candidate. If we lived in a sane world, his candidacy would be considered a joke, the press would ignore him, and he wouldn't get a single vote in any party selection process.
No, it should have gotten a 30 second "news of the weird" style blip, given us all a laugh, and move on. I think he should vote for himself, so a vote would be appropriate.
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Unread 10-02-2015, 02:34 PM   #65
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I haven't fully endorsed any candidate yet, but so far I'd say Bernie Sanders seems the most neighborly of all the candidates judging by his track record and stances on issues regarding social justice and war.
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Unread 10-02-2015, 04:50 PM   #66
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Sanders to me seems like he advocates theft, and stokes his campaign by inciting greed for stolen loot essentially, frankly. I see him as being at least as bad as Trump. Seriously.
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Unread 10-02-2015, 05:32 PM   #67
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That's interesting. Care to expound?
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Unread 10-02-2015, 06:33 PM   #68
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That's interesting. Care to expound?
I guess the concept of "theft" could be somewhat subjective. I was just looking at my pay stub and taxes the other day and noticed the after my return each year the federal government still keeps over 20% of my wages. In addition to federal taxes I pay an 8% sales tax, a few thousand each year in property taxes, gas tax, taxes on some services such as cell and electricity, as well as all the government fees that could be considered taxes like vehicle registration, fishing license, etc. etc. etc. I figure it works out to be well over 30% (maybe nearing 40%) for a guy who's just barely keeping his head above water.

I'm seriously working my ass off and just living paycheck to paycheck -- so from my point of view anyone who suggest a bigger government (which would undoubtedly result in higher taxes for me), no matter how noble their reasoning, is advocating theft.
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Unread 10-02-2015, 06:48 PM   #69
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You were given an answer, one you didn't like. Oh well.
Ha, but no. You didn't answer my question, or even attempt to do so. You just repeatedly told me who you don't like. And honestly, I knew who you didn't like before you said it.

I'm not a trump supporter, but I find myself defending him more and more. He's not my guy in the primary (which Texas actually has a say in this time around), but if he somehow makes it to the general election, I'm more likely to support him than whomever the dems retch up.

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Of course, I have a real difficulty finding any worthy candidates. And, _my_ particular form of Christianity is much more excited by Sanders than any others. But _your_ understanding of Christianity will probably not lead you to that same excitement.
Absolutely! Aside from the fact that socialism is a bad idea and ethnically questionable, I can't get excited about any candidate who thinks the slaughter of children is morally acceptable.
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Unread 10-02-2015, 06:49 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by jthomas1600 View Post

I guess the concept of "theft" could be somewhat subjective. I was just looking at my pay stub and taxes the other day and noticed the after my return each year the federal government still keeps over 20% of my wages. In addition to federal taxes I pay an 8% sales tax, a few thousand each year in property taxes, gas tax, taxes on some services such as cell and electricity, as well as all the government fees that could be considered taxes like vehicle registration, fishing license, etc. etc. etc. I figure it works out to be well over 30% (maybe nearing 40%) for a guy who's just barely keeping his head above water.

I'm seriously working my ass off and just living paycheck to paycheck -- so from my point of view anyone who suggest a bigger government (which would undoubtedly result in higher taxes for me), no matter how noble their reasoning, is advocating theft.
This isn't necessarily directed at you, just the idea of big vs small Government.

Politicians talk about making government smaller and more efficient. But it never actually happens. Republicans grow the government just like Democrats do.
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Unread 10-02-2015, 06:51 PM   #71
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Ha, but no. You didn't answer my question, or even attempt to do so. You just repeatedly told me who you don't like. And honestly, I knew who you didn't like before you said it.

I'm not a trump supporter, but I find myself defending him more and more. He's not my guy in the primary (which Texas actually has a say in this time around), but if he somehow makes it to the general election, I'm more likely to support him than whomever the dems retch up.

Absolutely! Aside from the fact that socialism is a bad idea and ethnically questionable, I can't get excited about any candidate who thinks the slaughter of children is morally acceptable.
So for you, in the end, it all boils down to a single moral issue?
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Unread 10-02-2015, 07:02 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by S.B.Nichols View Post

Ha, but no. You didn't answer my question, or even attempt to do so. You just repeatedly told me who you don't like. And honestly, I knew who you didn't like before you said it.

I'm not a trump supporter, but I find myself defending him more and more. He's not my guy in the primary (which Texas actually has a say in this time around), but if he somehow makes it to the general election, I'm more likely to support him than whomever the dems retch up.

Absolutely! Aside from the fact that socialism is a bad idea and ethnically questionable, I can't get excited about any candidate who thinks the slaughter of children is morally acceptable.
I gave you an answer. Once again, you just didn't like the particular form of the answer. Honestly, much of what I mentioned fit more candidates than just Trump.

In regards to the slaughter of children: I suppose slaughtering them in the womb is much worse than dropping nukes on populated areas, continuing wars that have killed thousands upon thousands of innocent women and children (though, they have brown bodies and live in the wrong country, so we don't much care anyway), commodifying immigrant bodies (once again, stealing the personhood of the unwashed masses), and in a very Christlike manner sending asylum seekers back to war torn areas where they will likely be killed horrifically.

The capitalism vs. socialism debate will lead nowhere between us, so I won't even go there (though Bernie Sanders isn't a socialist...).

Edit: to clarify, I am anti-abortion. I find it morally reprehensible. I just am not sure about the best way to lessen the number. So, while I am opposed to that particular stance of Sanders, I am hopeful that there are other ways to make concrete changes that could lessen the number of abortions performed in the US.

What's interesting is Trump, for instance, has switched around on this subject. He is playing to his base for now. He has so morals, it seems, that keep him grounded to any position unless that position puts him in the winner's court.
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Quote:
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Taylor, you just got drive-by theologied.

Last edited by Uptown Thrunk; 10-02-2015 at 07:26 PM.
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Unread 10-02-2015, 07:06 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by jthomas1600 View Post

I guess the concept of "theft" could be somewhat subjective. I was just looking at my pay stub and taxes the other day and noticed the after my return each year the federal government still keeps over 20% of my wages. In addition to federal taxes I pay an 8% sales tax, a few thousand each year in property taxes, gas tax, taxes on some services such as cell and electricity, as well as all the government fees that could be considered taxes like vehicle registration, fishing license, etc. etc. etc. I figure it works out to be well over 30% (maybe nearing 40%) for a guy who's just barely keeping his head above water.

I'm seriously working my ass off and just living paycheck to paycheck -- so from my point of view anyone who suggest a bigger government (which would undoubtedly result in higher taxes for me), no matter how noble their reasoning, is advocating theft.
How much more in taxes would you be paying according to what has been said by Sanders?

From my understanding, the real point for him is to crack down on corporate fraud, tax loopholes, and the insanely rich who often pay a much lower rate than the not so rich.

(Of course, I may be behind about what information is going on. I'm much more in tune with what is happening in the UK and the recent election of Corbyn for the Labour party leadership, something which has been a great triumph for democracy, imo)
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Taylor, you just got drive-by theologied.
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Unread 10-02-2015, 08:37 PM   #74
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I gave you an answer. Once again, you just didn't like the particular form of the answer.
(Paraphrasing)
Me: Who should a Christian support?
You: I don't like Trump.

That's not an answer. It's ok not to have an answer, but you were the one making a point about another member's faith and their choice in candidates. You could at least offer a short list. I mean, I guess you finally did by offering up Sanders, but I'm going to need you to connect the dots between faith and politics there.

Quote:
In regards to the slaughter of children: I suppose slaughtering them in the womb is much worse than dropping nukes on populated areas...
Are we nuking someone, or are you comparing a hypothetical nuking to the real slaughter of millions of children?

Quote:
...(though, they have brown bodies and live in the wrong country, so we don't much care anyway)...
Racism! Nice... Well thought-out point; very powerful. I'm still holding out for Godwin's Law to hold true though...

Wait for it...
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Unread 10-02-2015, 10:14 PM   #75
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In regards to the slaughter of children: I suppose slaughtering them in the womb is much worse than dropping nukes on populated areas, continuing wars that have killed thousands upon thousands of innocent women and children (though, they have brown bodies and live in the wrong country, so we don't much care anyway), commodifying immigrant bodies (once again, stealing the personhood of the unwashed masses), and in a very Christlike manner sending asylum seekers back to war torn areas where they will likely be killed horrifically.

Well aside from the fact that this is a ridiculous ad hominem, nobody has dropped a nuke in warfare since Nagasaki at the end of WWII. But really, slaughtering them in the womb by wholesale is at least as bad, so really Sanders is that bad. Also, if you don't think abortion targets brown bodies, you are mistaken.

Simple fact: Bush, Obama, Clinton, and Bush Sr. have all perpetuated war without end. All claimed they wouldn't. But it is a relatively easy way to justify greater power over citizens. I don't think a new suit in the white house will change that, any more than a new suit will stem the tide on abortion. Both take long games which American politics is not set up for.

Also, the idea of Sanders redistribution of wealth is a motivation of greed, focusing on what we as people do not have, and saying that government should essentially take it from someone else and give it to me. The only difference from extortion and theft here is that this is it on a far grander scale. Trump is clearly greedy. Sanders is far more insidious in the greed he stirs up in his followers. One is motivated by greed, the other motivates with greed. I see Trump, I see a buffoon. I see Sanders, I see a fool who is stiring up greed, which is a dangerous force.

Personally, from what I have seen, I think I like Carson best actually.
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