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Unread 08-10-2015, 10:10 AM   #31
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I don't know if it is the idealist in me, or the pragmatist, but I am actually tempted to vote Bernie.
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Originally Posted by The Chunkster View Post
If I vote I am definitely voting for him.
Supporting a candidate and voting is always tough as a Christian person. Especially being the sort of Christian who is primarily interested in orthodoxy. Using Jesus as a prop is offensive to me and people on both sides of the American political spectrum tend to do so in the most crass sorts of ways. I'm sorry but Jesus was not a conservative or a progressive, not a capitalist or a socialist, not red and not blue. The mission of Jesus is not apt to be fit into the conceptual form preferred by partisans of any stripe. And this makes things difficult.

So, yes, I am a fan of Bernie Sanders but I am by no means adopting wholesale the progressive agenda. Because, obviously, at the anthropological/ontological level Christianity presents us with a radically different understanding of what people are: namely, icons of the living God. So the whole notion that we can be fundamentally understood as monadic, rational, morally autonomous individuals is just something I wholly object to. And this vision is shared by conservatives as well, though they tend to be less consistent in following that logic through (with the possible exception of their libertarian brethren).

But I am endorsing Sanders (tentatively) because America has been flirting with social democracy—something in the ballpark of a Scandinavian-style welfare state—for a long time now (e.g. Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid, unemployment insurance, food stamps, etc.). Touching these entitlements has been called a "third rail" of American politics for a reason: people actually like the programs. They improve people's lives. And for me this is not some distant ideology. I have seen the benefits these programs can confer first hand. So, not only does cutting them strike me as politically impossible, it just seems like bad policy more generally. Clearly this is a big swing from my days as a Ron Paul supporter. And though I still have libertarian tendencies in some areas (the NSA, prisons, drug laws, warfare, and so forth), I have come to find it impossible to take seriously as a coherent political philosophy.

Now, one of the big sticking points with Christians and political progressivism is abortion. I share those concerns. I am not at all crazy about the liberalization of abortion law. Ethically I think it's nearly as bad as murder (if not the same thing) and I just don't buy the typical justifications regarding ownership of our bodies (obviously, as a couple paragraphs ago I affirmed that we are not autonomous beings). That said, I see no hope for the outlawing of abortion and therefore am not at all impressed with the rhetoric typical of conservatives on this issue. I really believe that certain welfare programs (and various associated policies) can be used to ameliorate the difficulties concomitant with having a child in today's America—programs which are threatened by ideological aims typical of American conservatism. And my hope is that this will reduce the number of baby killings happening in our country. Ideally the church would occupy this role. But I'm not sure that's a serious possibility at this juncture.

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Originally Posted by The Chunkster View Post
It was an interesting phenomenon, but I think people are over him, or quickly turning that way.

He is too loud-mouthed for his own good.
His character is just too ugly to make a joke out of. Sometimes I can't help but laugh. But more and more I'm just disgusted.

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Unread 08-10-2015, 12:20 PM   #32
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Dear Josh,

GET OUT OF MY HEAD.

Sincerely,
Jonathan
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Unread 08-10-2015, 02:17 PM   #33
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Dear Josh,

GET OUT OF MY HEAD.

Sincerely,
Jonathan
But it has such great reverb.

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Unread 09-02-2015, 04:47 PM   #34
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A few random thoughts:

I don't think Trump is or ever was good for American politics. Mostly because I believe he is only in it to build and promote his own brand. I think he's a clown with a lot of money.

How is it Hillary is still in it? Are liberals so blindly devoted to the movement that they don't care about ethics, honesty, and character? Incidentally those are the same types of questions I have for the "conservatives" supporting Trump.

How about all the Sanders supporters? I'm thinking some of them have no hope of making a future for themselves so they're hopeful that the government will step in and take some resources from those of us who have had some success and share it with them. Not the Sanders supporters on here though: I just assume ya'll have so much money you don't mind giving some away.

I know some of the teachings of Jesus (and the structure of the new testament church) seem socialistic but don't forget the parts of the Bible about "if a man doesn't work he shouldn't eat". If you want to start a Christian commune and all work together and all share your stuff that's great. But as we're reminded over and over (on CGR quite a bit actually) this is NOT a Christian nation.

I think Jeb Bush is at the top of the list of Republicans that really have no chance. I just don't see anybody interested in more establishment.

I'd like to hear much more from Carly Fiorina and Ben Carson.

Whew.... it's still a whole year away.
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Unread 09-02-2015, 07:53 PM   #35
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I've read articles that Carson is rising. I think he's a smart guy, but I just don't know if he has the applicable experience. For head of the FDA, yes he would make a great fit. For president, I don't know.
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Unread 09-03-2015, 01:35 AM   #36
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What are peoples' thoughts on Biden?

I know he hasn't officially put his hat in the rink, but he seems like he could be a powerful contender.
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Unread 09-03-2015, 07:21 AM   #37
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What are peoples' thoughts on Biden? I know he hasn't officially put his hat in the rink, but he seems like he could be a powerful contender.
I'm not sure how he could be powerful... Honestly, I've seen nothing to suggest he's anything but the court jester of the White House :/. Maybe I'm allowing the media the paint my views too much, but I'm less than impressed.
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Unread 09-03-2015, 07:52 AM   #38
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So who is voting West 2020?
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Unread 09-03-2015, 08:29 AM   #39
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What are peoples' thoughts on Biden?

I know he hasn't officially put his hat in the rink, but he seems like he could be a powerful contender.
After his son died there was a lot media coverage on Bidens early life. A lot of talk about the sacrifices he made to work in government and still be an attentive and involved father. It seems that at his core he might be a really good man. I told my wife at the time I thought he would end up running. I think he would have a lot of support. I can see him coming out with something like "I know this is what Bo would have wanted me to do, so today I announce my candidacy for president of the USA"

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So who is voting West 2020?
You mean Alan West? I like the guy.
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Unread 09-03-2015, 11:01 AM   #40
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I'm not sure how he could be powerful... Honestly, I've seen nothing to suggest he's anything but the court jester of the White House :/. Maybe I'm allowing the media the paint my views too much, but I'm less than impressed.
Part of me thinks that's why he could be a strong contender. Aside from the portrayal as an Obama lackey, his story is one of a really likable guy. The same can't be said for Hillary. If Biden came out with a revamped image of being the jokey family guy who also had strong stances on big issues, I could definitely see his campaign mirroring that of GW Bush. At the end of the day, I knew a lot of people making noise for Bush just because they thought Al Gore would be a terrible person to invite to a cookout.
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Unread 09-10-2015, 05:02 AM   #41
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Trump is still rising with like 30% of republicans viewing him favourably.

This is bizarre, but makes sense in regards to the national climate, our rather homogenous disappointment with the political class.

But, does anyone here like Trump? Or know someone who does?

Why? What are the concrete reasons?
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Taylor, you just got drive-by theologied.
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Unread 09-10-2015, 11:30 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Chunkster View Post
Trump is still rising with like 30% of republicans viewing him favourably.

This is bizarre, but makes sense in regards to the national climate, our rather homogenous disappointment with the political class.

But, does anyone here like Trump? Or know someone who does?

Why? What are the concrete reasons?
I know people that like Trump. Most of them are appreciative of his inflammatory rhetoric as they see it as a big middle finger to political correctness, which, of course, is the downfall of our nation. Along with that, they think that anybody that's not already a part of Washington is automatically better than whatever comes from Washington.

I'm still hoping, deep down inside, that Trump is trolling the demographic that supports him and when he doesn't win the nomination he releases a well thought out social-political commentary documentary movie that shines a mirror upon some of our faulty attitudes and assumptions as a nation. I'd settle for a Borat-style flick, though.
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Unread 09-11-2015, 09:56 AM   #43
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Bernie Sanders overtakes Hillary Clinton in Iowa - POLITICO
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Unread 09-11-2015, 10:57 AM   #44
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Clinton is actually doing a lot worse than I thought. I didn't realize how weak she was in regards to general election stuff.

Business Insider: This might be the most brutal poll yet for Hillary Clinton. http://google.com/newsstand/s/CBIwqpz7syM
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Taylor, you just got drive-by theologied.
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Unread 09-11-2015, 02:55 PM   #45
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I think every Bidens chances are fading quickly. I just think you can only question whether or not you have the will and the heart to do it so many times before that becomes a question that then haunts you the whole time you're running should you decide to do so later.
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