07-20-2013, 08:37 PM
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#1 | My name is Oliver Queen.
Joined: Oct 2007 Location: 127.0.0.1 Posts: 5,532
| If a tree falls in the forest, does it make a sound? If I ask this question and no one is around to hear it, does the tree make a sound regardless?
__________________ ~ Josh
Bass - Yamaha TRBX 505
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Gear - Line 6 Helix, POD HD500X, Zoom G9.2tt, Zoom B9.1ut, Boss DD-20 Warning: This journal may contain diary But He was pierced for our transgressions
He was crushed for our iniquities;
The punishment that brought us peace was upon Him,
And by His wounds we are healed. |
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07-20-2013, 08:44 PM
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#2 | I'm on a horse.
Joined: Jun 2003 Location: Seattle, WA. Posts: 29,118
| I know you posted this in CPF, but I'm gonna move it to Philosophy... and see what happens...
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07-20-2013, 08:45 PM
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#3 | My name is Oliver Queen.
Joined: Oct 2007 Location: 127.0.0.1 Posts: 5,532
| Don't tell ST, but you're my favourite mod.
__________________ ~ Josh
Bass - Yamaha TRBX 505
Acoustic Guitars - Ovation Celebrity Deluxe CC48, J. Watson & Co. WD150TB
Electric Guitars - Fender Classic '72 Telecaster Thinline (2007), Maton Mastersound, Epiphone Les Paul Studio Chameleon
Guitar Amp - Fender Mustang IV V2
Bass Amp - Behringer Ultrabass BXL1800A
Gear - Line 6 Helix, POD HD500X, Zoom G9.2tt, Zoom B9.1ut, Boss DD-20 Warning: This journal may contain diary But He was pierced for our transgressions
He was crushed for our iniquities;
The punishment that brought us peace was upon Him,
And by His wounds we are healed. |
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07-20-2013, 08:50 PM
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#4 | I'm on a horse.
Joined: Jun 2003 Location: Seattle, WA. Posts: 29,118
| But if sound is the vibration of air, then yeah, if no one hears it, it still makes a sound.
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07-20-2013, 08:53 PM
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#5 | My name is Oliver Queen.
Joined: Oct 2007 Location: 127.0.0.1 Posts: 5,532
| It becomes waves of that energy, but is sound defined as what we hear, or the effects of the vibrations?
__________________ ~ Josh
Bass - Yamaha TRBX 505
Acoustic Guitars - Ovation Celebrity Deluxe CC48, J. Watson & Co. WD150TB
Electric Guitars - Fender Classic '72 Telecaster Thinline (2007), Maton Mastersound, Epiphone Les Paul Studio Chameleon
Guitar Amp - Fender Mustang IV V2
Bass Amp - Behringer Ultrabass BXL1800A
Gear - Line 6 Helix, POD HD500X, Zoom G9.2tt, Zoom B9.1ut, Boss DD-20 Warning: This journal may contain diary But He was pierced for our transgressions
He was crushed for our iniquities;
The punishment that brought us peace was upon Him,
And by His wounds we are healed. |
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07-20-2013, 09:15 PM
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#6 | I'm on a horse.
Joined: Jun 2003 Location: Seattle, WA. Posts: 29,118
| Quote:
Originally Posted by Giga Hertz It becomes waves of that energy, but is sound defined as what we hear, or the effects of the vibrations? | I think sound is sound regardless of if someone is there to hear it. I mean, is an apple red if no one looks at it? Color is just vibrations, too.
Besides, if a tree falls in the forest and no one is there to hear it, God still hears it, right?
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07-20-2013, 09:30 PM
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#7 | is probably a Phantasm
Joined: Apr 2005 Location: Durham Posts: 1,210
| The "paradox" works by conflating two things that we experience together so that we tend to think they are one in the same--sound and hearing.
In short, the tree falling produces sound waves. "Hearing" requires some kind of organism to receive and register |
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07-20-2013, 09:35 PM
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#8 | This Mortal Frame..
Joined: Aug 2004 Location: Houston, Tx Posts: 9,376
| Quote:
Originally Posted by Rainer. I think sound is sound regardless of if someone is there to hear it. I mean, is an apple red if no one looks at it? Color is just vibrations, too.
Besides, if a tree falls in the forest and no one is there to hear it, God still hears it, right?  |
This doesn't even take into account the various animals in the forest that have the ability to translate vibrations in the air into audio information.
Even if a human doesn't here it something probably will. So regardless of whether or not its considered a sound if no one is there to hear it, since it is heard by some creature then there is a sound.
__________________ "Behold the Man upon a cross, my sin upon His shoulders. Ashamed I hear my mocking voice, call out among the scoffers" - How Deep the Fathers Love for Us Quote:
Originally Posted by Nate It's indisputable, though, that it has absolutely nothing to do with either copulation or defecation. | |
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07-20-2013, 09:46 PM
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#9 | I'm on a horse.
Joined: Jun 2003 Location: Seattle, WA. Posts: 29,118
| Quote:
Originally Posted by Demon_Hunter This doesn't even take into account the various animals in the forest that have the ability to translate vibrations in the air into audio information.
Even if a human doesn't here it something probably will. So regardless of whether or not its considered a sound if no one is there to hear it, since it is heard by some creature then there is a sound. | I figured "no one hears it" would include animals.
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07-20-2013, 09:47 PM
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#10 | The Story Teller
Joined: Feb 2011 Location: Anywhere but the city Posts: 755
| Of course. (I lack an intelligent answer)
__________________ "When you say there's too much evil in this world you assume there's good. When you assume there's good, you assume there's such a thing as a moral law on the basis of which to differentiate between good and evil. But if you assume a moral law, you must posit a moral Law Giver, but that's Who you're trying to disprove and not prove. Because if there's no moral Law Giver, there's no moral law. If there's no moral law, there's no good. If there's no good, there's no evil. What is your question?" — Ravi Zacharias |
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07-21-2013, 01:15 PM
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#11 | Registered User
Joined: Jul 2013 Location: Midwest Posts: 16
| The trick here is that Yes, if a tree falls in the forest it will produce sound waves, but if it is not perceived, it would not have sound. As sound is a sensory perception, it is a technical distinction.
The classical postulation is: Quote:
If a tree falls in the forest and there is no one around to hear it, does it make a sound?
| If no one refers to a human, this gets into the modern philanthropic principal or, on a deeper level, subjective idealism. The question of whether or not any material thing exists outside of human perception. From this perspective the answer would be No because the tree can not be known to exist if it is not perceived. Quote:
I think sound is sound regardless of if someone is there to hear it. I mean, is an apple red if no one looks at it? Color is just vibrations, too.
| What you may ask is since there is no secondary property to the tree (the perceivable aspects) does the primary property (its entity) still exist?
ie. The "Redness" of the apple, the "Treeness" of the tree, or even perhaps the "Soundness" of a sound?
This would be a question of the Substance Theory (ala Hume or Nietzsche) and I don't think any of us want to go there.
If no one is any creature then from a scientific perspective, if a truly unobserved event has no effect (imparts no information) then it is identical to an event that never happened. So the answer would be No. This view, however, would be argued against by proponents of the Chaos Theory.
The question is are you asking a scientific question or a philosophical question? |
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07-21-2013, 01:23 PM
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#12 | Mr. Kvorkomiskinovichlich
Joined: Sep 2011 Posts: 7,314
| What if the whole world is all in our head?
I think that's one of the questions this tries to bring up. People dismiss this as silly all the time, but it's logically possible. |
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07-21-2013, 02:06 PM
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#13 | Person
Joined: Aug 2010 Location: Auckland, New Zealand Posts: 1,115
| You could get all shrodinger on this and ask if the tree actually fell. |
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07-21-2013, 03:54 PM
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#14 | and you were wondering?? Administrator
Joined: Aug 2004 Location: In the bedrock of Being. Posts: 15,417
| Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank1234 What if the whole world is all in our head?
I think that's one of the questions this tries to bring up. People dismiss this as silly all the time, but it's logically possible. | Of course, some philosophers, like Alvin Plantinga, would classify the belief that the world is actual is a properly basic belief, and thus warrants no major degree of skepticism concerning it's reality.
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Originally Posted by Demon_Hunter Taylor, you just got drive-by theologied. | |
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07-21-2013, 05:01 PM
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#15 | طعام الكلب
Joined: Feb 2004 Location: Aotearoa Posts: 14,560
| of course it makes a sound. why wouldn't it? |
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