Go Back   Christian Guitar Forum > Deeper Issues > Academics
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Arcade Mark Forums Read

Reply
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Unread 01-12-2013, 01:53 PM   #1
by hope we steer
 
Almost Enough's Avatar
 

Joined: Dec 2003
Location: Far Northern California
Posts: 2,591
Israeli-Palestinian Conflict

Explain.

Also, how does the modern state of Israel correlate with the Israel of the Bible?

My wife and I have been spending more time watching the news and trying to understand world politics more. I feel like I just walked into the middle of a movie and have no real bearing on what is actually going on. We have been reading articles and Wikipedia entries, but I'd like some input from you guys.

Almost Enough is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Unread 01-12-2013, 01:57 PM   #2
Chur Bro
 
dogfood's Avatar
 

Joined: Feb 2004
Location: New Zealand, Fiji
Posts: 13,328
Send a message via MSN to dogfood
I would say it's very complicated.
__________________
dogfood is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-12-2013, 03:02 PM   #3
Old School
Administrator
 
Leboman's Avatar
 

Joined: Aug 2003
Location: Geezerville
Posts: 55,873
I personally don't think they do. That is...I don't believe the modern state of Israel is the same Israel we see in the Bible.
__________________
Nothing (Without You)
Granville Center Church of Christ Sermons
My German is pre-industrial and mostly religious.
Leboman is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-13-2013, 01:24 AM   #4
by hope we steer
 
Almost Enough's Avatar
 

Joined: Dec 2003
Location: Far Northern California
Posts: 2,591
Quote:
Originally Posted by dogfood View Post
I would say it's very complicated.
Is it? Or is it one of those issues that has been so compounded with non-issues and media jargon that the actual issue is lost? From what I've HEARD on news articles, it sounds like a Hatfield v McCoy thing. I don't know what the plot is. Hence the thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. RM View Post
I personally don't think they do. That is...I don't believe the modern state of Israel is the same Israel we see in the Bible.
That's how I've felt, but I don't know a LOT on the issue. I attend a church that is a hard-line Israel supporter, seemingly no matter what the state decides to do. I'm not one for blind allegiance, no matter how "noble" the cause. I want to know what's going on.
Almost Enough is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-13-2013, 03:59 PM   #5
Registered User
 
Ridley's Own's Avatar
 

Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 5,126
Send a message via MSN to Ridley's Own
Quote:
Originally Posted by Almost Enough View Post
Is it? Or is it one of those issues that has been so compounded with non-issues and media jargon that the actual issue is lost? From what I've HEARD on news articles, it sounds like a Hatfield v McCoy thing. I don't know what the plot is. Hence the thread.
I always feel like I'm watching some kind of sporting event where A). I don't know the rules and B). the teams seem to be changing the rules every play.

Very basically, though I can go into much greater detail if you want, the current issues have their root in the 1967 Six-Day War. Israel launched a preemptive attack on the Sinai, Gaza, the Golan Heights, and the West Bank. Sinai and Gaza were occupied by Egypt, Golan by the Syrians and Jordan the West Bank (including East Jerusalem/Old City).

ISrael gave up the Sinai in 1982 and following the peace with Anwar Sadat. Israel annexed the Golan Heights (a strategic defensive area) but I'm not sure if that's really recognized by anyone other than Israel. The problem is in Gaza and the West Bank. Israel believed that the pre-1967 borders are indefensible, and needs the West Bank to prevent being on their back feet should the Arabs invade or attack again. Moreover, the Palestinians living in the West Bank fled to refugee camps, and Israel needs land to maintain their growing immigrant population, so Israel has undertaken to create Jewish settlements in historically Palestinian Arab Muslim/Christian areas in the West Bank, though this is contrary to int'l law.

The two rounds of the Oslo Accords created a Palestinian Government for the West Bank and Gaza; but they've been unable to control the terrorist groups like Hamas, Hezbollah, etc., for a multitude of reasons. Adding to this is the Israeli creation of a "separation wall" and checkpoints between Arab and Israeli populations that have frequently made it impossible for Arab Palestinians to access their fields, places of work, etc. The Palestinian Authority itself is split between the Fatah government in the West Bank (and its largely old-skool nationalist orientation) and the Hamas government in Gaza (which is Islamist)

So, there's a couple of specific issues: 1. Borders. Does Israel get to keep the settlements east of the 1967 border or does the West Bank get carved up like a Christmas turkey? What borders are "defensible" for Israel? What borders are economically viable for the Palestinians? 2. Refugees and the right of return. Do the refugees from the various wars and uprisings get the right to return to their previous abodes or do they just have to lump it? Some of the Arab refugees are from areas now indisputably Israeli; does this threaten the Jewish Identity of the State of Israel? 3. Security of Israel from terrorism 4. Status of Jerusalem; both sides want it to be their capital to the exclusion of the other side. 5. Water.

Quote:
That's how I've felt, but I don't know a LOT on the issue. I attend a church that is a hard-line Israel supporter, seemingly no matter what the state decides to do. I'm not one for blind allegiance, no matter how "noble" the cause. I want to know what's going on.
There's enough immaturity and bad behavior on both sides, and the knee-jerk support for Israel by the American right and the knee-jerk support for the Palestinians from the left muddles the issues. Israel shouldn't have to put up with home-made missiles hitting its villages and cities. Palestine shouldn't have to worry about whether an Israeli bulldozer is going to raze their ancestral home. Who did what first? Who cares. Adults stop worrying about that sort of thing and figure out a way so other people won't die.

Here's what I'd say: If your church is supporting Israel so that the Antichrist will find it easier to slaughter all but 144,000 Jews after the rapture, they're doing it wrong. Do some reading and ask questions. Make your own judgements and talk to your pastor/whatever about it. Talk to Christian Arabs in Palestine and Israel and get their take on it. You might be surprised.
__________________
Ridley+
Ridley's Own is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02-07-2013, 08:55 AM   #6
and you were wondering??
Administrator
 
Uptown Thrunk's Avatar
 

Joined: Aug 2004
Location: In the bedrock of Being.
Posts: 14,708
paid
If what Israel has done through creating settlements for a growing immigrant population breaches international law then why has nothing been done by international powers? Is it solely because of the United States emphatically backing Israel?
__________________
Hello! Come visit my blog! http://taylormweaver.wordpress.com/

Yes... I am the official "Knight Who Will Write Something On Derrida".
Bask in the wonderful glory.

"outside of a dog a book is a man's best friend... inside a dog it is too dark to read."
-groucho marx

Quote:
Originally Posted by Demon_Hunter View Post
Taylor, you just got drive-by theologied.
Uptown Thrunk is online now   Reply With Quote
Unread 02-07-2013, 09:05 AM   #7
Old School
Administrator
 
Leboman's Avatar
 

Joined: Aug 2003
Location: Geezerville
Posts: 55,873
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thrash View Post
If what Israel has done through creating settlements for a growing immigrant population breaches international law then why has nothing been done by international powers? Is it solely because of the United States emphatically backing Israel?
BINGO!!!!
__________________
Nothing (Without You)
Granville Center Church of Christ Sermons
My German is pre-industrial and mostly religious.
Leboman is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02-07-2013, 11:28 AM   #8
Registered User
 
Ridley's Own's Avatar
 

Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 5,126
Send a message via MSN to Ridley's Own
Well, as usual, a little bit more complicated than that. The US has been clear since '67 that the Green Line (the boundaries set after the '48 war) is the starting place of negotiations, so I don't think it's just an issue of US power being exercised.

The problem with the legal question is two fold. First, there's no mechanism to determine whether Israel is actually in violation of international law. The International Criminal Court only has jurisdiction on signatories, and even then, there's a long list of other criteria to be met in order for the Rome Statute to apply. Second, even if there was a mechanism for determining the illegality of the settlements, who's going to enforce it?
__________________
Ridley+
Ridley's Own is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-11-2015, 05:58 PM   #9
Registered User
 
john2's Avatar
 

Joined: Jan 2015
Location: Poland
Posts: 18
In this confcict I support Israel. I know they violate human rights but if you're surrounded by enemies you you have to defend your citizens. I think muslim people are a danger to the security of Europe and the world...
I was in Israel few years ago and it's so beatiful in contrast to Egypt or Jordania...
john2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:42 AM.


Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2