hi i'm a fairly regular poster but would prefer to keep my identity private for reasons that are probably obvious

my boyfriend and I have been together for a while now and are planning to get engaged in the summer, but we've struggled with some slip-ups in our sexual purity. We haven't had sex but we've done many other things that we both agree aren't good or healthy or pleasing to god. We both love the Lord and genuinely want to do what is right, but this has been very challenging. obviously we like it...duh...but we know it's not okay and we want to quit falling back into it over and over again. Once we've failed and we again realize we are in the wrong, we always pray and then take steps to put good boundaries in place so that it doesn't happen to again, and granted we have been dog better and. better, but the issue is that neither of us are experiencing a lot of guilt or conviction or feeling bad about it. We've kind of been trying to obey god off pure faith that it's what is right in God's eyes even though we don't feel the weight of it or have much regret. I think we both regret that we ever fell into trouble because obviously now we have to deal with it and keep trying to stop, but what we are doing feels very natural and normal and not lustful or evil like we sort of believed sin like that would feel. There's not a sense of shame or indecency that comes along later like people say will happen. I don't feel like he's lost respect for me and I definitely have not lost any for him. Neither of us feel like we've gotten proud or hard-hearted towards God. In fact we both see many ways that our relationship with each other has caused us to grow much closer to the Lord and we both feel we've become better people because of or relationship. We both just kinda thought that if you fell into that kind of temptation and sin you were just going to feel terrible all the time and guilty or convicted or at least kind if disconnected from God and each other and it has not been that way so far. So, we do want to cease this and be pure, but because of this lack of guilt it seems almost impossible sometimes.

I have been in a bad relationship before where I was manipulated a lot and did a lot of terrible things sexually that looking back I didn't really want to do but this has felt so different that it's hard to know how to deal with it well. My boyfriend hasn't ever done anything like this before me, sometimes I feel like it's my fault things have gotten like this but he said that's not really true at all and it's been very mutual.

I guess what I'm asking is how to deal with this kind of sin that you genuinely want to get rid of when you don't really feel any consequences of it. We have a real desire to please the Lord but not a real feeling that what we've done is very bad.

[athanatos]

Wow, this sounds extremely familiar. As in, I've felt this exact thing before.

I'd like to seriously challenge two statements:
"We haven't had sex but we've done many other things that we both agree aren't good or healthy or pleasing to god"
and
"Neither of us feel like we've gotten proud or hard-hearted towards God. In fact we both see many ways that our relationship with each other has caused us to grow much closer to the Lord and we both feel we've become better people because of or relationship."

If, in fact, it is sin or not pleasing to God, then I'm not sure the god you're getting closer to is God. Hardness of heart regarding your sexual activity need not feel like a struggle against the Almighty, it may feel as natural as anything. It is, after all, genuine emotions driving the sexuality.

Somehow you have got to resolve those two quotes. Either it is wrong, and you've been blinded by sin; or it isn't wrong, and you can continue to engage in these acts. There isn't a middle ground, where it is wrong but God's likes that you engage in it. And just because you can't get pregnant by your method doesn't mean it isn't sex.

P.S.
Who are you accountable to?

[Ax]

Been there done that. I'm not sure I ever really resolved that feeling, not until after the wedding. After all the things we did (and I wont go into detail) I still felt very much like a virgin, as did she, including that awkward almost ashamed feeling people made us feel about it. It's a weird area that I'd like to say is very grey, but it's not. It's definitely black and white, but it's hard to tell which sometimes when the light is out.

Originally Posted by athanatos

And just because you can't get pregnant by your method doesn't mean it isn't sex.

Part of me agrees with this and part doesn't. I don't really know how to explain it. I kind of agree with somebody I've heard in the past say "If you think you've had sex, you've had sex, and if you don't, then you haven't." At the same time, I think that lends to much to the grey than black and white.

[ethereal]

Thank you for your reply, I really appreciate it.

I think I see what you are saying. I want to clarify though that neither of us believe it is okay whether you want to classify it as sex or not sex or too far or whatever, and we are not trying to pull the classic "Well we're gonna get married so we may as well" thing, or the "Well the bible doesn't explicitly stated hat this is wrong so it's gotta be fine" thing or the "Well as long as it isn't sex its cool" thing. We know it's wrong and we know that we cannot continue this way without damage to our relationship with the Lord. We desire purity and know that we are not living up to it and we want change. The issue I think is that changing is much more difficult when the understanding of our sin is almost purely intellectual and barely emotional, and obviously sexual desire is such a strong emotion to conquer. It is not that we think we're not guilty its that we don't have a feeling of guilt about it, which makes it a lot more challenging to overcome

as for being hard hearted, we know that there is danger there to grow apathetic and careless. We don't want that at all. This is part of why I seek advice. It's difficult to know if this lack of feeling bad is a symptom of hard hearts or if it's just because we aren't particularly emotional people or if it's normal or what it is.

Whether the specifics of what we've dabbled in are technically sin or not seems unimportant to me, I view it as sin and my boyfriend does as well even if it's just because we know it isn't leading us in a godly direction. I'm not to justify any of it or make excuses for it.

[ethereal]

Originally Posted by athanatos

P.S.
Who are you accountable to?

forgot to reply to this sorry. he has a guy that asks him how that kinda stuff has been going but the guy is kind of overbearing and weird about it. He usually wants my boyfriend to go into gory detail about it and then to analyze why it happened and what went wrong and stuff and it tends to make it actually harder rather than easier. I've attempted to get accountability in the past from some girlfriends who haven't been very faithful in keeping up with me and it leaves me very hesitant to open up to them again. I have a woman in my life who I'd like to meet with and be accountable to but she lives half an hour away and has a pretty busy life but I really should ask.

[Caged Love]

Yeah, kinda been there as well. I think that the only thing that you can do is really get right and close with God. Not much else I can say, you seem to be getting some advice from the others here. I had to go through a rather messy breakup in order to learn that if God wasn't what I wanted most, it wasn't going to work. If you know its wrong but it doesn't "feel wrong", then you should go with your logic and not your emotions. Emotions are deceiving, and you shouldn't rely on it for truth.

[Pauler]

i guess what i hear you saying is that it is hard to abstain. are you wanting us to give the two of you suggestions to help, or are you just venting frustration?

[ethereal]

Originally Posted by Pauler

i guess what i hear you saying is that it is hard to abstain. are you wanting us to give the two of you suggestions to help, or are you just venting frustration?

You know honestly I'm not even sure, ha. I think I am mainly wanting to be sure that our lack of emotional guilty is not unusual or a sign of something bad. Suggestions are very welcome as I know many people have experienced similar troubles. There is an element of venting there also but it's helpful to hear people say they've been there. maybe I'm just looking for some support.

[BillSPrestonEsq]

I am going to jump in. There is a passage all about this.

1 Corinthians 7:6 If anyone is worried that he might not be acting honorably toward the virgin he is engaged to, and if his passions are too strong and he feels he ought to marry, he should do as he wants. He is not sinning. They should get married.

The bible does draw a line and it is well before sex, it is at lust. Jesus doesn't talk about ripping testicles off if they cause you to lust for nothing, (The word for hand in the sermon on the mount is a common euphimism for testicle. I could explain if anyone wants, but it's just a bit weird.)

The funny thing with sexual sin is that it often can feel so right, but if you are being sexually abused produces huge amounts of guilt. I am also going to say as someone who sounds like a previous boyfriend has sexually abused you, a common theme I have heard is how tricky it can be for those of us who have encountered sexual abuse to cope with things. Without going into gory detail it almost seems like it would be healing to do what you shouldn't.

In short, at this point, the Bible really points to marriage as the answer. The Bible does not really agree with American and American church teachings on a lot of this stuff. As a temporary solution, try to mechanically prevent it. Spend time in public places alone, where failing in this area would get you arrested. Adds a nice layer of incentive to do the right thing. No, I am not joking, not even a little bit.

[Kaii]

i would like to help, heres a verse,, hope it can help you sister.

1 Corinthians 13:4-7
Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

[jwbrownlula]

I think the world has done a great disservice to us by making marriage a thing for the late 20's crowd. Me and my wife slipped up before we got married, and I actually place some of the blame on her mother who did not want us to get married until she graduated college. We ended up getting married the semester before, and even though it was hard with her 2 hours away, when I snuck up to stay the night, or when she came home on the weekends we were no longer sinning. Now days there are just too many oppurtunities to fall to temptation. There are consequences for the mistakes I made. It caused some trouble between us, and we had to work through it. I propose marriage as the answer. It is a lot easier to abstain 6 months, than be in a close relationship for 3 years. Picking your partner is not rocket science. God will lead you to them, if your not sure he is the one, then you should back off as bf/gf until you are.