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Unread 02-15-2012, 09:12 AM   #1
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Kansas abortion bill: doctors may lie to patients to help prevent abortions

Kansas Abortion Bill Would Impose Sweeping Restrictions

I'm absolutely in favor of working to decrease abortions, but this is ridiculous.

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Unread 02-15-2012, 10:29 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by rock_show_host
Kansas Abortion Bill Would Impose Sweeping Restrictions

I'm absolutely in favor of working to decrease abortions, but this is ridiculous.
I really don't like the fact that pro-lifers usually claim that abortions happen because of ignorance (potential mother doesn't understand what is going on in the womb), but are advocating ignorance when it is beneficial to their cause.
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Unread 02-15-2012, 01:40 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by thesteve

I really don't like the fact that pro-lifers usually claim that abortions happen because of ignorance (potential mother doesn't understand what is going on in the womb), but are advocating ignorance when it is beneficial to their cause.
There was an insurance commercial that once said, "ever wonder why a 16 year old is driving like they are missing part of their brain? Thats because they are.". I'm not suggesting that all woman who seek abortions are teenagers (I don't know the percentage) but I suspect it is high or significant.

So I would suggest that teenagers aborting babies don't know enough information or are ignorant to it. They haven't learned enough yet, they need to be taught.

However this bill does seem a bit far reaching, and overstepping the governments boundaries. Stopping some malpractice suits is good for the cost of health care in general, and stopping tax deductions makes good sense.
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Unread 02-15-2012, 01:59 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by normajean777 View Post
So I would suggest that teenagers aborting babies don't know enough information or are ignorant to it. They haven't learned enough yet, they need to be taught.
Of course teenagers need to be better educated. But they don't need to be lied to.

Quote:
Originally Posted by normajean777
Stopping some malpractice suits is good for the cost of health care in general, and stopping tax deductions makes good sense
Doctors who lie to their patients or knowingly withhold important health information from them deserve to be sued.
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Unread 02-15-2012, 02:03 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by normajean777 View Post
There was an insurance commercial that once said, "ever wonder why a 16 year old is driving like they are missing part of their brain? Thats because they are.". I'm not suggesting that all woman who seek abortions are teenagers (I don't know the percentage) but I suspect it is high or significant.

So I would suggest that teenagers aborting babies don't know enough information or are ignorant to it. They haven't learned enough yet, they need to be taught.

However this bill does seem a bit far reaching, and overstepping the governments boundaries. Stopping some malpractice suits is good for the cost of health care in general, and stopping tax deductions makes good sense.
Just to play devils advocate here, that same ignorance can be used in favour of the counterargument: 16 year olds are too ignorant to be able to be good parents.

But yeah, I agree with thesteve - fighting ignorance with more ignorance is, well, ignorant.
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Unread 02-15-2012, 02:06 PM   #6
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But yeah, I agree with thesteve - fighting ignorance with more ignorance is, well, ignorant.
Not to mention hypocritical.
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Unread 02-15-2012, 02:17 PM   #7
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It seems like if they want to prevent abortion, they create a bill requiring that they inform the patient of the exact procedure about to be performed, detail for detail. It's particularly gruesome.
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Unread 02-15-2012, 03:56 PM   #8
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It seems like if they want to prevent abortion, they create a bill requiring that they inform the patient of the exact procedure about to be performed, detail for detail. It's particularly gruesome.
But the problem here is how many times do you tell a person what happens in gangs, or when you do this or that, and they go out and do it just cause they where told not to and it was a bad idea?

lord knows I know many teenage girls who haves kids and they are\where like that
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I honestly would have guessed the actual Kentl was mulletman and vice versa...
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Unread 02-15-2012, 05:33 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Kentl

But the problem here is how many times do you tell a person what happens in gangs, or when you do this or that, and they go out and do it just cause they where told not to and it was a bad idea?
I have no idea how you get to that comparison.

A teen with an unforeseen pregnancy is usually confused, frightened, and otherwise emotionally unstable. Are you actually meaning to say that she might get an abortion to "rebel" against the doctor who will perform the procedure, telling her what exactly the process of removing the unborn fetus from her body entails?
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Unread 02-15-2012, 08:31 PM   #10
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I have no idea how you get to that comparison.

A teen with an unforeseen pregnancy is usually confused, frightened, and otherwise emotionally unstable. Are you actually meaning to say that she might get an abortion to "rebel" against the doctor who will perform the procedure, telling her what exactly the process of removing the unborn fetus from her body entails?
Are you trying to use logic when it comes to someone being scared, highly emotional and a teenager?

I've had girls who have been told and guess what? They did it, before they were told they could not decide and all of them say they made up their mind when the thing was explained
Becsue they where more scared of the unknown, once its known its not as scarry and CAN start looking like the better option

It's kind of like saying why drugs are bad or STDS and telling them what is done to get rid of them, it dont stop them. more so when they are scared and way over their heads.
Hell adults even do the same thing
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Originally Posted by scared2mosh View Post
I honestly would have guessed the actual Kentl was mulletman and vice versa...
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Originally Posted by jeepnstein View Post
Apparently, he gave you persistence by the truckload.
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Ok, the fact you spelled that right proves it.
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Unread 02-15-2012, 08:53 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kentl
Are you trying to use logic when it comes to someone being scared, highly emotional and a teenager?

I've had girls who have been told and guess what? They did it, before they were told they could not decide and all of them say they made up their mind when the thing was explained
Becsue they where more scared of the unknown, once its known its not as scarry and CAN start looking like the better option

It's kind of like saying why drugs are bad or STDS and telling them what is done to get rid of them, it dont stop them. more so when they are scared and way over their heads.
Hell adults even do the same thing
I don't understand your position. Are you saying abortion education shouldn't be done by doctors? Are you saying that ignorance is better than education in this instance?
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Unread 02-15-2012, 08:57 PM   #12
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I don't understand your position. Are you saying abortion education shouldn't be done by doctors? Are you saying that ignorance is better than education in this instance?
No, but thinking if we tell them they wont do it, is not the awnser either, the problem is when it comes to something like this "logic" has no barring, they are highly emotnal and scared, telling them the "Facts" dont work when they are this scared, why should we belive telling them the "truth" will do anything?
its not like telling pepole what drugs\gans or anything else wrong has stoped pepole before.

I was telling him that his idea would not work, heck many of them would pick it becuse once they found out they get more scared, and not thing stright. you do not help a scared person by telling them something thats even more scarry it pushes them off the edge, should they be told? maybe by someone who is trained to deal with it, most doctors are not trained for that type of stuff, more so when it will differ form evrey person

So if anyone should it should be a pshy, not a doctor.
Even then thinking it will help is like thinking if you tell a teen not to do something they wont
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Quote:
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I honestly would have guessed the actual Kentl was mulletman and vice versa...
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Apparently, he gave you persistence by the truckload.
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Ok, the fact you spelled that right proves it.
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Unread 02-15-2012, 11:53 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by normajean777 View Post
I'm not suggesting that all woman who seek abortions are teenagers (I don't know the percentage) but I suspect it is high or significant.

It's actually only 18%.
I would assume it is different by state, but I wouldn't imagine a huge difference. The majority of abortions are committed by adults.
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Unread 02-16-2012, 01:57 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kentl
maybe by someone who is trained to deal with it, most doctors are not trained for that type of stuff, more so when it will differ form evrey person
Doctors are certainly trained for "that type of stuff". Do you think that anyone possibly knows more about women who get abortions than a doctor who performs abortions? Oncologists are trained to communicate with patients dying of cancer, ER doctors are trained to communicate with patients in severe trauma, certainly doctors who perform abortions are trained to communicate with their patients, who honestly are more often than not young women.

Also, telling a patient what exactly an abortion does to the body is in essence an emotional appeal. If it were a purely logical appeal, then it shouldn't matter whether or not the patient was aware of the process.

Though my real opinion is that you tell the patient what will be done because it is the right thing for a patient to know what is going on, not necessarily to stop the patient from doing whatever.

As it was said earlier in the thread, you can't fight ignorance with more ignorance. There is no way to stop a woman from getting an abortion if she wants it. There are much more basal issues that need to be addressed; access to contraception, sex education, poverty, etc.
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Unread 02-17-2012, 12:50 AM   #15
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It's actually only 18%.
I would assume it is different by state, but I wouldn't imagine a huge difference. The majority of abortions are committed by adults.
Yeah I've heard similar stats elsewhere - its a myth that all these abortions are scared teenagers. Lots of people across the child-bearing ages.
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