[Ted Logan]

I apologize if this is a silly thought, because all I know about the Occupy Movement is what I read occasionally in news articles, and I have little sympathy for it (as one with tens of thousands of dollars in student debt and decades of repayment ahead of me, I might even have been the poster child).

But I was reading the Communist Manifesto today, and a thought struck me: Might the way the Occupy Movement has framed its complaints and arguments be directly shaped by this document? What I have read of their demands suggests this thought to me. And is it possible that the coined terms for the class struggle (99% and 1%) are a way to insert the old Communist class struggle idea into the public consciousness without so quickly evoking the instant rejection that many hearers would have if they used terms like "bourgeoisie" and "proletariat"?

Is that crazy?

[Thrash]

With your hypothesis is their not an assumption that the movement is unified? My understanding is that it is a messy aggregate containing even contradictory ideas and actions because there is no real unifying thought structure. But I am a layman concerning OWS as well.

[slap_j]

Originally Posted by Ted Logan

Might the way the Occupy Movement has framed its complaints and arguments be directly shaped by this document?

Not likely. My understanding is similar to Taylor's: calling it OWS is a matter of convenience. There is nothing monolithic about it. I don't see any kind of coherent vanguard or anything. I don't even think there is any real class consciousness in the United States, is there? That would make it difficult for there to be an actual class struggle. Most of the people calling this class warfare are being wildly hyperbolic.

[normajean777]

A lot of the interviewees that I've seen on YouTube did in fact reference a struggle between the proletariat and the bourgeois.

[jthomas1600]

While the movement may not be unified there's no doubt there is organization behind it. I've seen too much coverage of the movement with people like Bill Ayers Bill Ayers Teaches Radical Theory At #OccupyChicago - YouTube and Frances Fox Piven #OccupyWallStreet - Frances Fox Piven and Russell Simmons Address the General Assembly - PFB - YouTube. There's too many ultra left wing radical Hollywood types incessantly giving interviews and providing talking points. And of course Nancy Pelosi supports them Nancy Pelosi: God bless occupy Wall Street protestors - YouTube

[bravesfan007]

This is a side note:

I just thought about these movements earlier today. Are they still in progress or did they get shut down? I remember hearing a lot about them and then it just ceased.

[slap_j]

Originally Posted by normajean777

A lot of the interviewees that I've seen on YouTube did in fact reference a struggle between the proletariat and the bourgeois.

That's like Tea Party people name-dropping Hayek or Friedman. It's not very useful for building a morphology of the phenomenon.

Originally Posted by bravesfan007

This is a side note:

I just thought about these movements earlier today. Are they still in progress...?

Yep.

[normajean777]

Has Freidman been discredited or something? I think he's relevant enough.

[slap_j]

Originally Posted by normajean777

Has Freidman been discredited or something? I think he's relevant enough.

No, he's good. What I mean is that those people may be within the Occupy movements but their presence is only a small part of the story.

[Ted Logan]

Let me state my original thought:

Might the specific idea of "the 99%" versus "the 1%" come directly or indirectly from Communist theory? Regardless of whether class struggle is a relevant thought in America, it's certainly relevant to silly college students in the US who read the Manifesto.

[BillSPrestonEsq]

I think class consciousness is a very real idea in American society. Not in perhaps the blatant ways it is in some other cultures, but it is definitely there. perhaps not so much in middle-upper middle class, but I guarantee you it has been there among the lower classes and seems to be a current with the wealthy.

[Thrash]

Originally Posted by BillSPrestonEsq

I think class consciousness is a very real idea in American society. Not in perhaps the blatant ways it is in some other cultures, but it is definitely there. perhaps not so much in middle-upper middle class, but I guarantee you it has been there among the lower classes and seems to be a current with the wealthy.

I agree that there are class distinctions. Just look at the "inner-city ghetto" distinguished from other areas in cities. But it goes beyond just regions in cities.
But, the point that distinguishes the OWS from a the "proletariat vs. bourgeoise" is that it ins't really a class struggle with the working/lower/poor/undesired class versus the rich/materially privileged/bourgeoise. It is a giant mix with middle class and upper-middle class and, of course, lower class citizens railing against the injustices of "capitalism" and materialism. Though, I really haven't studied much on this movement...

[BillSPrestonEsq]

Originally Posted by Thrash

I agree that there are class distinctions. Just look at the "inner-city ghetto" distinguished from other areas in cities. But it goes beyond just regions in cities.
But, the point that distinguishes the OWS from a the "proletariat vs. bourgeoise" is that it ins't really a class struggle with the working/lower/poor/undesired class versus the rich/materially privileged/bourgeoise. It is a giant mix with middle class and upper-middle class and, of course, lower class citizens railing against the injustices of "capitalism" and materialism. Though, I really haven't studied much on this movement...

99% vs 1% was the mainstream ethos of Occupy Portland which is a class struggle, even if the participants do not realize that the 99% is really for the most part well off.

It is framed as a class struggle against capitalism oddly based on materialism and jealousy so far as I can see.

[bravesfan007]

Originally Posted by slap_j

Yep.

That's interesting. I guess they aren't getting a lot of airtime lately.

[slap_j]

Originally Posted by BillSPrestonEsq

I think class consciousness is a very real idea in American society. Not in perhaps the blatant ways it is in some other cultures...

Perhaps not in the way Marx might've used the word either. You don't see the poor voting for their own interests as a bloc, for instance.