[Cam42]

Any of you who know me well enough would know that I'm not the sort who gets involved in politics, but this is huge. SOPA and PIPA could pretty much put an end to the internet as we know it. SOPA has been shelved, for now, but PIPA is still up for vote in the Senate on the 24th. Sites like Reddit and Wikipedia are blacking out tomorrow in protest, and even Google is putting a banner up on their homepage. Make the Call | Stop the Wall is a fantastic resource for information and allows you to easily call your senators and voice your opposition.

For more information on the bills themselves, Reddit has a fantastic writeup on their blog: blog.reddit -- what's new on reddit: A technical examination of SOPA and PROTECT IP

[bobthecockroach]

I've been wanting to ask someone this for a long time...

What do you think would *actually* happen if these laws passed? Do you actually think anything would change? If so, what?

Not interested in what *could* happen.

[Cam42]

It's near impossible to predict, but I do think that everything that *could* happen is very close to what actually would happen.

[bobthecockroach]

Example? What is the worst thing that you actually expect to happen?

[to_be_released]

In New Zealand, we've already had an antipiracy bill go through (backed and funded by the US, I believe). I haven't looked closely, but I don't think the bill here gave the government quite as much power as SOPA will. The bill here is more directed at individuals that take part in file sharing, rather than targeting websites.

It took a while for the first batch of infringement notices to go out, partially because the logistics of identifying and prosecuting IP addresses is thankfully not that easy. When the first batch did go out, more than 40 of the first 50 infringements were for downloading Rihanna songs. Basically, the legislation is in place, and the government can act, but logistically, they act in a way to get maximum infringements for minimal effort. Downloading obscure indy films (which actually need the protection) is unlikely to get you caught, but downloading blockbuster films and popular music will get you caught.

With SOPA, the conversations I've seen give me the impression that websites caught with copyright infringements will get taken down. It is in internet user's nature to upload music and images onto website that they don't have rights to, so a very large number of websites will be at risk. I'd say that big sites like facebook and wikipedia will be safe because the government wouldn't want the backlash caused by taking them down, but they'll target the biggest sites they can that don't provide too much backlash.

That sound realistic?

[Cam42]

Originally Posted by to_be_released

In New Zealand, we've already had an antipiracy bill go through (backed and funded by the US, I believe). I haven't looked closely, but I don't think the bill here gave the government quite as much power as SOPA will. The bill here is more directed at individuals that take part in file sharing, rather than targeting websites.

It took a while for the first batch of infringement notices to go out, partially because the logistics of identifying and prosecuting IP addresses is thankfully not that easy. When the first batch did go out, more than 40 of the first 50 infringements were for downloading Rihanna songs. Basically, the legislation is in place, and the government can act, but logistically, they act in a way to get maximum infringements for minimal effort. Downloading obscure indy films (which actually need the protection) is unlikely to get you caught, but downloading blockbuster films and popular music will get you caught.

With SOPA, the conversations I've seen give me the impression that websites caught with copyright infringements will get taken down. It is in internet user's nature to upload music and images onto website that they don't have rights to, so a very large number of websites will be at risk. I'd say that big sites like facebook and wikipedia will be safe because the government wouldn't want the backlash caused by taking them down, but they'll target the biggest sites they can that don't provide too much backlash.

That sound realistic?

Basically this. Sites like Reddit/Fark/etc would most likely be the first major sites to go down.

[Chrysostom]

Originally Posted by to_be_released

It took a while for the first batch of infringement notices to go out, partially because the logistics of identifying and prosecuting IP addresses is thankfully not that easy. When the first batch did go out, more than 40 of the first 50 infringements were for downloading Rihanna songs. Basically, the legislation is in place, and the government can act, but logistically, they act in a way to get maximum infringements for minimal effort. Downloading obscure indy films (which actually need the protection) is unlikely to get you caught, but downloading blockbuster films and popular music will get you caught.

In other words, government regulation supports the monopolies of the biggest corporations. This is not surprising...

[TunerSteve]

Originally Posted by to_be_released

In New Zealand, we've already had an antipiracy bill go through (backed and funded by the US, I believe). I haven't looked closely, but I don't think the bill here gave the government quite as much power as SOPA will. The bill here is more directed at individuals that take part in file sharing, rather than targeting websites.

It took a while for the first batch of infringement notices to go out, partially because the logistics of identifying and prosecuting IP addresses is thankfully not that easy. When the first batch did go out, more than 40 of the first 50 infringements were for downloading Rihanna songs. Basically, the legislation is in place, and the government can act, but logistically, they act in a way to get maximum infringements for minimal effort. Downloading obscure indy films (which actually need the protection) is unlikely to get you caught, but downloading blockbuster films and popular music will get you caught.

With SOPA, the conversations I've seen give me the impression that websites caught with copyright infringements will get taken down. It is in internet user's nature to upload music and images onto website that they don't have rights to, so a very large number of websites will be at risk. I'd say that big sites like facebook and wikipedia will be safe because the government wouldn't want the backlash caused by taking them down, but they'll target the biggest sites they can that don't provide too much backlash.

That sound realistic?

This pretty much sums up the way I understand it. My fear extends to what could happen however. Sites like YouTube, and facebook could be shut down as the bill would give that power, even though the sites are not known to distribute copyright protected works. The government could use such legislation to shut down sites like facebook that actually have power to change entire countries such as Egypt last year. It is these 'unintended' uses that scare me the most. I don't believe it's just about protecting rights, but protecting the status quo in power circles.

[beanbag]

it seems to me like these proposals seek to eliminate free speech/free expression.

i mean, copyright infringement? really? my 18 year old brother has caused notices of copyright infringement to be sent to my parents' home already...there's no need for new legislation to cause that.

besides, what is the difference between posting a song online illegally and giving your friend a CD to listen to and share with their friends? either way, someone is acquiring music they didn't pay for because someone along the line made the initial purchase. maybe it's not as far-reaching as posting pirated music online, but you're still sharing music with someone who didn't pay for it. is the government going to track every time i lend out a CD? i don't think so.

i don't think internet control is something any entity should claim. hacker sites already get shut down, so again, i don't see the necessity for new legislation. my family fled from a country that censors the internet. i would be ashamed and disgusted if my country did the same.

[bobthecockroach]

Originally Posted by Cam42

Basically this. Sites like Reddit/Fark/etc would most likely be the first major sites to go down.

You honestly think the government is going to shut down Reddit in its entirety with no recourse? Not just *could* but *will*.

[bobthecockroach]

For reference, posts like this are why SOPA and PIPA could very well pass:

Why I'm a Pirate! - Where is Ploum?

[bravesfan007]

Originally Posted by beanbag

it seems to me like these proposals seek to eliminate free speech/free expression.

i mean, copyright infringement? really? my 18 year old brother has caused notices of copyright infringement to be sent to my parents' home already...there's no need for new legislation to cause that.

besides, what is the difference between posting a song online illegally and giving your friend a CD to listen to and share with their friends? either way, someone is acquiring music they didn't pay for because someone along the line made the initial purchase. maybe it's not as far-reaching as posting pirated music online, but you're still sharing music with someone who didn't pay for it. is the government going to track every time i lend out a CD? i don't think so.

i don't think internet control is something any entity should claim. hacker sites already get shut down, so again, i don't see the necessity for new legislation. my family fled from a country that censors the internet. i would be ashamed and disgusted if my country did the same.

In addition to this, what about used CD sales? I mean, I've purchased used CDs from Amazon and eBay, and I know it's horrible because the artist didn't get a cut, but sometimes you're looking for something out of print. In addition, I would suspect a percentage of the people selling those discs, probably greater than 90%, still have the songs ripped to their computer and in their library. Just another issue that has to be considered. This isn't considering the thrift stores or the garage sales that go on around the country.

[normajean777]

Originally Posted by bobthecockroach

For reference, posts like this are why SOPA and PIPA could very well pass:

Why I'm a Pirate! - Where is Ploum?

So a foreigner who downloads music is the reason these laws exist? Oh boy...

I liken this to the pat downs and intrusive airport checks. The US Internet will be "patted down" but the real offenders can just go around.

And for the record, Wikipedia thinks its realistic enough that they could be shut down. Not directly by government but in high costs associated with following the law. Really it could be just be yet another job killing bill in the end by creating to much regulation.

[bobthecockroach]

Originally Posted by normajean777

So a foreigner who downloads music is the reason these laws exist? Oh boy...

I liken this to the pat downs and intrusive airport checks. The US Internet will be "patted down" but the real offenders can just go around.

And for the record, Wikipedia thinks its realistic enough that they could be shut down. Not directly by government but in high costs associated with following the law. Really it could be just be yet another job killing bill in the end by creating to much regulation.

The attitude that if you don't like the asking price you can just stop paying is why these laws might be passed (they don't exist yet).

[bowstaff981]

Yo bob, what's your take on SOPA? We can tell that you want to say it, so just say it.