[AndrewZealand]

The first thing a christian or other moralist criticizes about secular music, is the known drug use within the secular music business, that has been around since way back. I guess since the days of Larry Norman, Christian musicians have tried to distinguish themselves from secular, by not using drugs.

What would the whole rock 'n roll movement have been like without drugs? Better? Worse? Whatever the case may be, Contemporary Christian musicians are students of secular rock 'n roll, whether they admit it or not, drugs and all.

Starting at Larry Norman...there was often respect for secular music admitted by early CCM musicians. Larry in his song "Why Should the Devil Have All the Good Music?" (from 1972) says he still likes to the listen to rock 'n roll on the radio even though he's a christian believer. Chuck Girard on his first album (1975) does the song "Rock 'n Roll Preacher" where he admits he still loves rock 'n roll, even if his rock 'n roll is different. But I think at some point, CCM musicians started getting a bit arrogant, feeling so cock-sure of their musical abilties that they believed they didn't have to recognize and pay respect to the secular music that formed the basis of their own music. They felt so sure of themselves even to the point of writing off secular music as "evil", while calling their own music "good" and trying to teach kids to think the same way.

The biggest show of respect to secular music from a Christian band that I've seen, is the recent Stryper album The Covering. All the songs are covers of famous rock and heavy metal bands. Even those "Devil Bands" once heavily targeted by the church like Judas Priest, Iron Maiden, Black Sabbath, Van Halen and others. To my knowledge, Stryper don't even change the lyrics for fear that some lyrics would be percieved as unchristian. In "Immigrant Song" by Led Zeppelin, Stryper still sing the line "The Hammer of the Gods...will drive our ships to new lands". They don't mind singing about Nordic mythology. They don't mind the "God knows when I'm comin' home" lyric from UFO's "Lights Out" which could be seen as using God's name in vain. Then theres the 'expletive' in The Scorpion's "Blackout", "What the hell...have I lost my way!?", another lyric that,even today, christian bands would be afraid to use. LOL...I once heard a christian band cover "Zoot Suit Riot" by The Cherry Poppin Daddies and they had to change "Throw back a bottle of beer!" to "Throw back a bottle of ginger beer!". Pathetic!

[Thrash]

Ok.

[Kentl]

The first thing a christian or other moralist criticizes about secular music, is the known drug use within the secular music business

Please do not asumm al christains do this, many of us have no problem with the secular music

that has been around since way back. I guess since the days of Larry Norman, Christian musicians have tried to distinguish themselves from secular, by not using drugs.

I dont think so, some sure, but most seem to put songs about God instead of other things, or marketing

What would the whole rock 'n roll movement have been like without drugs? Better? Worse? Whatever the case may be, Contemporary Christian musicians are students of secular rock 'n roll, whether they admit it or not, drugs and all.

Drugs dose not = secular music, just caust its uysed by a lot of them dose not mean drugs are a part of it, you can do it with out it very easily

Starting at Larry Norman...there was often respect for secular music admitted by early CCM musicians. Larry in his song "Why Should the Devil Have All the Good Music?" (from 1972) says he still likes to the listen to rock 'n roll on the radio even though he's a christian believer. Chuck Girard on his first album (1975) does the song "Rock 'n Roll Preacher" where he admits he still loves rock 'n roll, even if his rock 'n roll is different. But I think at some point, CCM musicians started getting a bit arrogant, feeling so cock-sure of their musical abilties that they believed they didn't have to recognize and pay respect to the secular music that formed the basis of their own music.

And many rock pepole dont do it for blues, and blues dont do it for

You see where I'm going?>

They felt so sure of themselves even to the point of writing off secular music as "evil", while calling their own music "good" and trying to teach kids to think the same way.

The thing is, a lot of seuclar music is "evil" in God's eyes, and be evil I mean sin, so of couse they think this.

The biggest show of respect to secular music from a Christian band that I've seen, is the recent Stryper album The Covering. All the songs are covers of famous rock and heavy metal bands.

it may be a christain band but thats not a christain abulm

Even those "Devil Bands" once heavily targeted by the church like Judas Priest, Iron Maiden, Black Sabbath, Van Halen and others. To my knowledge, Stryper don't even change the lyrics for fear that some lyrics would be percieved as unchristian. In "Immigrant Song" by Led Zeppelin, Stryper still sing the line "The Hammer of the Gods...will drive our ships to new lands". They don't mind singing about Nordic mythology. They don't mind the "God knows when I'm comin' home" lyric from UFO's "Lights Out" which could be seen as using God's name in vain. Then theres the 'expletive' in The Scorpion's "Blackout", "What the hell...have I lost my way!?", another lyric that,even today, christian bands would be afraid to use. LOL

It's not being afried to use, its not being the style they want

What dose drinking a beer got to do with God?
Why have it in a "christain" song?
really even "Christain" band is not real, its just a marketing tool

[Cam42]

Why is this thread necessary? We already have the secular music discussion thread, and it's been clearly outlined that all discussion like this belongs in that thread.

[AndrewZealand]

Kentl I'm not going to waste my time responding to your lame arguments

Schmeterling, the title of this whole sub-forum is 'Secular Music'. I didn't see any other thread about drug use within secular music so I started one.

Anyone else want to say anything?

[Thrash]

Originally Posted by AndrewZealand

Kentl I'm not going to waste my time responding to your lame arguments

Schmeterling, the title of this whole sub-forum is 'Secular Music'. I didn't see any other thread about drug use within secular music so I started one.

Anyone else want to say anything?

That's a rather pretentious attitude to have. If you don't actually want to dialogue about this subject then why have you even written anything? And even if Kentl's arguments are "lame", then the least you could do is point him in right direction instead of dismissing him in the way you have.


Edit: I am trying to figure out if you are just trolling, especially with your last "question." If so, just to let you know, we don't tolerate trolls on this online community.

[Cam42]

Originally Posted by AndrewZealand

Kentl I'm not going to waste my time responding to your lame arguments

Schmeterling, the title of this whole sub-forum is 'Secular Music'. I didn't see any other thread about drug use within secular music so I started one.

Anyone else want to say anything?

http://www.christianguitar.org/forums/t153449/ This is the only thread in which discussion of secular music in this sense is allowed, AFAIK.

[AndrewZealand]

lol..Being accused of trolling already? I can already see what a huge bias this forum has against people who are critical of Christian music.

Mate, I'm just going to leave of my own accord. Remove my membership.

[Thrash]

Originally Posted by AndrewZealand

lol..Being accused of trolling already? I can already see what a huge bias this forum has against people who are critical of Christian music.

Mate, I'm just going to leave of my own accord. Remove my membership.

Well if you are just looking to argue and dismiss others just because they disagree with your arguments, then yes you are trolling. I didn't accuse, I warned that such attitudes are not tolerated. If you want to sincerely and politely discuss things then you are welcome to do so. No one here is "biased" against others because of their (or most aren't). You are mistaken.

[Rainer.]

The quick answer to this is that people are not homogeneous, and don't all think/feel/act the same way. Some Christians are this way, others are that way. Some secular musicians do this, others do that. Some Christian musicians do this, others do that.

Any premise that treats any of these groups as being homogeneous is therefore impossible to defend.

I see that the OP is gone now anyway. Oh well.

[thesteve]

Somebody get me the HELL out of here!!!

[monkeysintheday]

Question. I literally joined to ask this. And to have a legitimate discussion, not a judgement festival.

First I'd like to say that I myself am not Christian, I am an atheist. However I'm not going to tell you not to be Christian and make a worse name for atheists than we already have. So please try to return the favor,

What's so bad about drugs?
I myself have smoked (And currently smoke) Marijuana. I've used Psychedelics, and in many ways it's a spiritual experience. I was a Christian the first time I smoked Marijuana and the first time I used LSD, and at the time I felt closer to god than ever. Other than it being against the laws of mankind, when does god say not to try to achieve a higher level of consciousness? Especially with something naturally on the planet. If god created Marijuana, did he not intend for us to use it? If the plants flower contains a mind altering substance, then clearly we were meant to have our minds altered. However, I understand the personal choice to not smoke, that's all fine and dandy. I'd just like to hear your thoughts on the subject.

[BillSPrestonEsq]

Originally Posted by monkeysintheday

Question. I literally joined to ask this. And to have a legitimate discussion, not a judgement festival.

First I'd like to say that I myself am not Christian, I am an atheist. However I'm not going to tell you not to be Christian and make a worse name for atheists than we already have. So please try to return the favor,

What's so bad about drugs?
I myself have smoked (And currently smoke) Marijuana. I've used Psychedelics, and in many ways it's a spiritual experience. I was a Christian the first time I smoked Marijuana and the first time I used LSD, and at the time I felt closer to god than ever. Other than it being against the laws of mankind, when does god say not to try to achieve a higher level of consciousness? Especially with something naturally on the planet. If god created Marijuana, did he not intend for us to use it? If the plants flower contains a mind altering substance, then clearly we were meant to have our minds altered. However, I understand the personal choice to not smoke, that's all fine and dandy. I'd just like to hear your thoughts on the subject.

First of all, this is really the wrong place to ask this. General discussion would make sense.

As far as Christianity goes, Christians are instructed to not disobey the government. Drugs as illegal are hence not allowable. Secondarily, Christians are instructed not to be drunk with wine which precludes drunkeness which would apply, but since this is a troll thread...

Please re-ask it in a good section of the forum such as general discussion.

[MtlMom]

Originally Posted by monkeysintheday

Question. I literally joined to ask this. And to have a legitimate discussion, not a judgement festival.

First I'd like to say that I myself am not Christian, I am an atheist. However I'm not going to tell you not to be Christian and make a worse name for atheists than we already have. So please try to return the favor,

What's so bad about drugs?
I myself have smoked (And currently smoke) Marijuana. I've used Psychedelics, and in many ways it's a spiritual experience. I was a Christian the first time I smoked Marijuana and the first time I used LSD, and at the time I felt closer to god than ever. Other than it being against the laws of mankind, when does god say not to try to achieve a higher level of consciousness? Especially with something naturally on the planet. If god created Marijuana, did he not intend for us to use it? If the plants flower contains a mind altering substance, then clearly we were meant to have our minds altered. However, I understand the personal choice to not smoke, that's all fine and dandy. I'd just like to hear your thoughts on the subject.

Please stick around and discuss this in General Discussion. The topic of this thread was not a problem at all, the problem was that the troll started off with "the first thing a Christian [thinks]." We will agree to not tell you what you think if you will agree to not tell us what we think. This is probably the only Christian website that has a "Finer Things" thread on the first page of General Discussion, which says a lot about our general attitude.

There are other athiests here, and they often contribute very effectively to our discussions. The key is mutual respect, even when we disagree.