[JimmyYO]

So I've been leading worship off and on for many years now, more recently then ever. I try to find songs that will impact the regular joe and glorify God but it comes increasingly more difficult nowadays. it seems like everyone including myself is just attached to music with crap lyrics that barely if at all make any real impact on someones life.

This really all hit me today when I really listened to Coldplay's "Fix Me" song for the first time and completely balled my eyes out while reflecting on my entire life and those I've loved. It struck me so profoundly that Christian music has yet to make this impact on me....ever. I'm stuck wondering why. Maybe it's my own lack of faith or close-mindedness but I play over 200 songs both popular and old in church and none of them seem to mean as much to me as this secular Coldplay song.

Is Christian music just that much worse even from a lyrical spiritual standpoint or has my heart wilted so much that I'm ignorant to the beauty in Christian music?

[Kentl]

Neither, evrey perso will be moved by a defreint song "East to west" by casting crowns moves me form the east to the west
Slow fade dose as well

[JimmyYO]

True enough but I would think I'd be moved by a lot more Christian songs and a lot less secular ones. Seems wrong to me in more ways then one, especially for a worship leader

[Kentl]

Not at all, evrey single person is defreint when ti comes to songs, there IS a christain song out there that will move you but you may never find it, and thats not bad,

Christian songs have no special powers that make them better then secular ones, you are being to hard on yourself.

[martinedwards]

there are good ones, there are bad ones.

I think there are cycles where the music production comes to the fore rather than the actual song.......

there are also phases where the artists make songs which are "listen to" songs rather than "sing along to" songs.

I remember times when a full album of, I dunno, Say Robin Mark, songs were congregational worship songs. now I generally buy the worship compilations, and even they will only have 5 or six songs on a double CD that I feel would work with a typical church band in a 200 seater rather than a rack or sequencers and loop machines in a 3000 seater conference venue.

[Dwight Schrute]

overall, I personally tend to get more moved by secular songs as well. for me, they seem more real than the "smile and fake it" CCM industry. worship is a bit different, as I'm projecting my own feelings into what I'm singing, as opposed to approaching it in a consumer mentality of what I can get out of the song. not sure if that made sense or not, trying to avoid bashing the CCM industry in general.

[JimmyYO]

Originally Posted by Dwight Schrute

overall, I personally tend to get more moved by secular songs as well. for me, they seem more real than the "smile and fake it" CCM industry. worship is a bit different, as I'm projecting my own feelings into what I'm singing, as opposed to approaching it in a consumer mentality of what I can get out of the song. not sure if that made sense or not, trying to avoid bashing the CCM industry in general.

Pretty much what I'm feeling and I don't understand because it seems like it should be the opposite don't you think? Why do random people that don't care about God at all have more of an effect on me then Christian artists?

When songs like Jamie Grace "Hold Me" is the most popular Christian music of today even though you can't tell the song Christian. It's like we are taking the Christ out of the music but still getting no emotional response in return. I've listened to almost everything Christian out there and none of it was remotely as emotionally touching(my opinion) as Coldplay Fix Me or Jeff Buckley's Hallelujah. Maybe I'm just deaf or getting tired of all the worship music but the above seems rather accurate in my experience.

[Dwight Schrute]

maybe this piggybacks on the other thread in theology about modern worship and idolatry (if I can boil it all down). but realistically, what full range of emotions do we get from CCM music? it's an incredibly limited scope of emotions, if any at all. I find I can rarely relate to the CCM stations if and when I turn them on at all. it's all happy sugar coated stuff, poorly done because let's face it - the message is more important than the fact that the musicians are sub par, the recording is weak, and it's overproduced into oblivion. because it's for the church, and well hey - that should be good enough.

I'm admittedly negative about the CCM scene, and there are of course exceptions to that sugarry coated genearalization. but by and large, I'm finding that the cry of someone's heart seems to ring more true when they are in full knowledge of their emotions, without filtering them through what might not offend one obscure sect of the CCM market.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by JimmyYO

I've listened to almost everything Christian out there and none of it was remotely as emotionally touching(my opinion) as Coldplay Fix Me or Jeff Buckley's Hallelujah.

Perhaps you have other examples, but this reads to me like, "Why can't I find anything as emotionally touching as the most emotionally touching recordings of all time?" You listed an emotional song by one of the most popular and praised songs from the last decade, and a 15 year old recording which is cited on many lists as one of the best songs of all time.

It's probably true you haven't heard anything in Christian music as touching as those two songs, but you also won't find many secular songs with that kind of emotional impact.

If you compare the best of all time to a single genre from the last few years...of course it will come up short.


Both Christian and secular music are loaded with emotionally shallow, over-produced music intended for as broad of an audience as possible.

I try to find songs that will impact the regular joe and glorify God but it comes increasingly more difficult nowadays.

With the teenagers I work with it seems they are frequently moved by worship songs (both by their reaction during services and by the fact they repost them on Facebook), but very few of them listen to CCM. I don't know what it is about CCM but it seems to have a magical ability to squeeze the life out of songs. Whenever a major artist puts out a worship songs cover album they're painfully bad. It's like they all have the same over-producer using the same bag of tricks for every song.

Last week both Newsboys and Seventh Day Slumber released worship albums. They're two bands which sounds very different but when playing worship songs suddenly they have the same ideas and the same sound. They managed to find the same ways to choke the life, soul, and dynamics out of very organic songs.

Seventh Day Slumber covered "How He Loves" ...a song where on the original recording had an extra verse about the singers friend dying and the singer starts to audibly cry... and they changed lyrics to the point that the meaning was changed and over-produced the song to the point it was nearly unrecognizable. I have no idea how anyone who wasn't trying to market a hit would think that the changes were an improvement.

[rock_show_host]

Originally Posted by JimmyYO

Is Christian music just that much worse even from a lyrical spiritual standpoint or has my heart wilted so much that I'm ignorant to the beauty in Christian music?

Disliking modern Christian music is not a sign that something's wrong with your heart. It's a sign that even your emotions still have artistic standards.

I still don't understand why Christians only apply this dichotomy of secular/sacred to music. What about literature? There are works of literature that are explicitly "Christian" and works of literature that would be considered secular, but I don't usually hear Christians making a fuss about the distinction. Nor have I ever heard anyone say that they feel guilty for finding more beauty and depth in Hamlet than in the latest Ted Dekker novel.

All people, whether or not they're believers, owe their talents to God. And God doesn't only choose to bless Christians with extraordinary talent. If music by non-Christian songwriters moves you, then just let yourself enjoy it -- and thank God for bestowing His gifts on them.

[Rainer.]

What kind of song do you think would have more emotional impact... A song written by a Christian artist, meant to be simple for church musicians around the country to play, have a positive message, and easy for a congregation to sing? Or a song written by someone in the secular music industry, simply meant to be the best, most impactful song they have ever written?

I think a lot of the problem is the industry, and some of the best Christian songwriters can't get published and released by Christian labels for not being CCM enough... And they wind up in the "secular" industry to get their music heard. I know if I made records, I'd probably never get picked up by a Christian label...

[Dwight Schrute]

very true, Rainer. if you don't fit the mold, you don't make the cut. but isn't it a mold created by supply and demand? as long as we keep buying the crap, they keep churning it out. I remember a very strongly anti CCM rant P.O.D. had when they started going mainstream and becoming popular. it was only after there was popularity and money to be made off them that the CCM industry wanted anything to do with them. what song was it they wrote about that? Masterpiece Conspiracy?

[Rainer.]

Originally Posted by Dwight Schrute

very true, Rainer. if you don't fit the mold, you don't make the cut. but isn't it a mold created by supply and demand? as long as we keep buying the crap, they keep churning it out.

Well, I think the problem there is that there "needs" to be a Christian music industry because there needs to be a Christian music industry. The cost of not paying for a Christian music industry is... not having a Christian music industry.

The CCM industry doesn't really gain a lot by taking risks on signing more avant garde artistry. But churches will always need praise music, so by pumping out new generic P&W they get fairly safe revenue, after all, they need to pay the people that they need to pay. Churches use that music because they don't really think they have a choice, and there isn't the resources or infrastructure to find music by small independent Christian labels, for example. And there really is a lot of pressure for churches to use music that "people will know". It's a bit of a perpetuating cycle.

[JimmyYO]

Man I'm just glad I'm not the only one that feels this way. Though it does make me sad, the huge impact that Coldplay song had on me ultimately made the world of Christian music a whole lot dimmer and I was a lot less motivated to do worship this week than any other

Hopefully more Christian's will start voting with their ears and wallets and maybe Christian labels will take more risks but honestly the outlook doesn't look good. Even a very well done edgy Christian song won't be appropriate for most churches which is where 90% of the market is. I see a lot more regurgitated versions of God of Wonder's in our near future and that doesn't sit well with those of us who give a crap about quality music.

[thesteve]

Here's one way to fix that:

Make an active effort with your worship team to write your own songs for your team to use in congregational worship. Before Brewster, Tomlin, Crowder, etc. were big, famous worship leaders, they were working as worship pastors in their home churches and writing music with that end in mind.