[MJ_Avalanche]

Apologies in advance for the book.

I don't think that's a bad thing at all. A more accurate statement is that's not how I play games anymore.

I stopped playing Jamestown (which is a really cool little space shoot'em up) because in order to beat the game, it was forcing me to play on the harder difficulties to unlock the later levels. I have zero interest in memorizing patterns and super precise timing and movement in order to make the story progress further.

Fighting games are on a totally different level and are completely skill driven. I got under the delusion that I was going to buy SSFIV and have a good time with it. I quickly realized that was not the case, because there are lots of people in the world that have fifteen years more of Street Fighter experience than I do that will gladly destroy me at the drop of a hat. You're also right that I can only make it about five fights into the arcade mode on normal before I hit a brick wall. So I don't play that anymore.

There was a time that I could do that. I used to be able to destroy a majority of people in Soul Calibur and Tekken. I was reasonably proficient at FPS during the MoHAA and early CoD era. Also played a lot of CoD4, but was only good at it because those old skills kicked in. Don't even get me started on Smash Melee.

But I don't have the time or desire to completely master the game's inner workings anymore. Should that lock me out of story content in a story driven game? Arkham Asylum had a good difficulty curve for the combat. You know why? The hardest fights were the second to last one and the optional one directly before that. Both of those fights made me have to go back to the drawing board a bit and rethink strategy. The rest of the game let you get by without too much stress.

Now for Arkham city, we've taken those fights, combined them and put them smack in the middle of the game. Only with more gameplay mechanics to master and more dudes to have to deal with. Also, you can't see what else happens with the story until you win this fight. No big deal you say. But once again, that's not how I play games anymore.

I generally stay far away from games that take longer than twenty hours to complete. Simply put, I get burned out on a game well before that mark. I think I've put at least that much that much time in AC, so what happened is this fight put me over the edge, and I just decided I was done with it.

So in conclusion, it's not a bad to make you learn and master mechanics. That's just not how I play games anymore.

Again, sorry for the book. This is good for me because I'm starting to get why I like the stuff I do nowadays.

[conceived in fire]

I personally find it very hard to understand combat being a major problem for anyone who has beaten Arkham Asylum, or more accurately, anyone who's gotten all gold medals on the challenge maps. There are so many new moves to use and gadgets you can quickfire, and the Lieutenants, although replacing Titans as the most frustrating enemy, aren't even that bad.
You can completely destroy both stun rods and guns mid-combat, making sure no one picks them up and uses them in later rounds. I had all three medals for almost all the combat challenges by the end of round three, and I don't consider myself that great. This is after spending at least half the time on AA's challenges as I did on the main story.

The campaign challenges were a nice added challenge for the most part, using mutators that force you to counter without the little alert, not use gadgets at all, be wary of the gun crate that wasn't there before, etc. It only becomes frustrating when you play with Catwoman and she has trouble with stuff Batman doesn't (I kept dying to a stage with two Titans and a Lieutenant because she'd get inconsistently get hit and has....1/2 of Batman's health?).

Anways - AWESOME game. Cool new gadgets, different threats, the open world environment (AA was open too, but it felt more linear than this, perhaps just because AC has side missions). I'm going through New Game Plus in between Catwoman challenges, and don't mind completing everything (save a few side missions) again.
I'm very interested in buying Robin and Nightwing to play the challenges with different characters (and for achievements - yes, I'm one of "those people").

Edit: I'm 2/3 of the way through Catwoman's Predator challenges now, and it sucks.
"Remember all those awesome gadgets, movements and takedowns Batman has? More than 50% of them are gone, and you can crawl on ceilings like Spiderman!. Awesome right?"

[Andrew]

So the game is pretty fun but are we all okay with it being really... Scummy and juvenile in its treatment of women? I thought this game was several huge steps backward for the industry's attempt at legitimacy, due to the near-infantile portrayal of women.

That said, I bought it with ME3 since I got it for 10 dollars. But yeah, I find the game pretty offensive and am choosing to vote with my time and shall not finish it. (however I have watched a playthrough by a guy I sub to on Youtube.)

[jennypitt]

Arkham city is awesome! I just finish this game.

[conceived in fire]

Originally Posted by Andrew

So the game is pretty fun but are we all okay with it being really... Scummy and juvenile in its treatment of women? I thought this game was several huge steps backward for the industry's attempt at legitimacy, due to the near-infantile portrayal of women.

Uh, what? I see strong female characters, with the possible exception of Harley Quinn (who's full-blown insane). None of them are necessarily supposed to be "real" women. A female character using her sexuality may be cliche (Catwoman's the only really guilty party), but I don't see it as necessarily juvenile.

[Andrew]

Originally Posted by conceived in fire

Uh, what? I see strong female characters, with the possible exception of Harley Quinn (who's full-blown insane). None of them are necessarily supposed to be "real" women. A female character using her sexuality may be cliche (Catwoman's the only really guilty party), but I don't see it as necessarily juvenile.

So you don't think the absolutely ridiculous outfits, porn-y voices, and constant innuendo are juvenile?

How juvenile.

[conceived in fire]

Originally Posted by Andrew

So you don't think the absolutely ridiculous outfits, porn-y voices, and constant innuendo are juvenile?

How juvenile.

It sounds like you played the first 30-60 minutes involving Catwoman and judged the whole game on that, honestly. Let's look at each of the characters.
Catwoman has always been portrayed with sensuality, and worn fairly similar outfits. She's the only "porn-y voice" I remember, and the only one that uses innuendo (in my recollection). Said innuendo is not present in every other line of dialogue, I think.
Harley Quinn is full blown insane - and it's obvious - so....yeah. Slightly skimpy outfit.
Vicki Vale (the reporter) is pretty minor, but appears pretty smart. She gets saved by Batman at one point because she's a "normal" person. No cleavage or skin whatsoever, not even legs or arms.....
Talia Al Ghul is a pretty capable assassin, can defend herself, and isn't portrayed as a helpless damsel-in-distress - quite the opposite. Some belly and cleavage.

So besides Catwoman, we have....outfits that are quite mild in the context of modern video games?

And if you decide to play more:
http://thebestgamesiteever.com/2011/...n-arkham-city/

[Andrew]

Definitely said that I have watched through the entire game.

I stand by what I said. If you think that Talia AlGhoul as a character is fine then we really have nothing to talk about because we have totally opposing opinions.

EDIT - just want to say that i don't mean that in a snide way. I just don't see any purpose in us debating about this because I disagree so vehemently, I will no doubt allow some element of emotion into the debate and it will turn into an argument.

[Mara]

Originally Posted by Andrew

EDIT - just want to say that i don't mean that in a snide way. I just don't see any purpose in us debating about this because I disagree so vehemently, I will no doubt allow some element of emotion into the debate and it will turn into an argument.

Champion. *fistbump*