Gigs in Secular Spaces - Good Ministry or Bad Leadership?

hiddenpanda · 10-10-2011, 05:59 PM

Hi

I have a problem.

I'm in a band, and we've seen huge success playing in local clubs. Problem is, some of my band members lead a massive youth group, and underage kids have been following them into clubs.

Now based on 1 Corinthians 8:13 ("Therefore, if food makes my brother stumble, I will never eat meat, lest I make my brother stumble") my band members have been requested to either step down from youth ministry or to only play in all ages venues. Understandably, they chose to stick to youth leadership, which has been quite a setback for us as a band.

Personally I feel called to ministry through playing music in what has been traditionally seen as secular spaces, building relationships with people in these spaces and letting my lifestyle witness to them. I hate it when Christians give the impression that they're avoiding the world because they think they're better than "those people." We shouldn't hide from the world. I think Christians should be as culturally relevant as possible without compromising the Gospel in any way.

I need opinions, what do people think about being Christian and gigging in secular spaces? And kids following their role models into these spaces?

Should there have to be a choice between youth ministry and music ministry?

Scriptures backing up any views would be very cool.

rock_show_host · 10-10-2011, 06:27 PM

There's absolutely nothing wrong with playing in secular spaces. Unless you decide to only perform in churches, I don't really know what the alternatives would be. I live in Boston -- there certainly isn't an abundance of Christian clubs up here. I was in a band for a while, and the only shows we were able to land were at bars. I never thought it was an issue.

However--

Quote:

Originally Posted by hiddenpanda

Personally I feel called to ministry through playing music in what has been traditionally seen as secular spaces, building relationships with people in these spaces and letting my lifestyle witness to them. I hate it when Christians give the impression that they're avoiding the world because they think they're better than "those people." We shouldn't hide from the world. I think Christians should be as culturally relevant as possible without compromising the Gospel in any way.

I agree with everything you say here, but it doesn't sound like this applies to your band mates. It may be that they simply want to avoid 21+ venues to err on the side of caution, not because they're trying to hide from the world or because they think they're better than "those people." Sure, it's not necessary for a youth leader to abstain from anything that he/she wouldn't allow the kids to do -- but it's a personal judgment call, and if your friends think they can be a better influence by taking that extra step, then maybe that's what needs to happen. I know it's a handicap for the band, but hopefully you can find a way to work around it.

hiddenpanda · 10-10-2011, 06:47 PM

Yeah that's kind of what I've had to make peace with. It's not easy tho, when you've committed huge amounts of time and energy to a band just to see it evaporate due to a third of the band having a new conviction.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rock_show_host

not because they're trying to hide from the world or because they think they're better than "those people."

In terms of this, I know they don't have this view, but it's really hard to explain to unsaved guys in other bands why we have to turn down all their gigs all of a sudden without coming across as an elitist group of Christians.

Also, in South Africa good musicians interested in hardcore and indie genres are very hard to find, so if you happen to get together an entire band of really dedicated Christians all getting along really well it's something that you kind of really want to make an effort to keep.

Thanks for the reply

1/2-Fast Player · 10-10-2011, 06:49 PM

>I need opinions, what do people think about being Christian and gigging in secular spaces?

IMHO, you need to interpret Paul's writings within the context of Christ's actions. Read Luke 5:29-32 and Matthew 11:16-19.

I think we often err too far on the side of worrying about appearances rather than worrying about seeking and saving the lost. Especially the "seeking" part.

>Should there have to be a choice between youth ministry and music ministry?

No, there shouldn't.

BUT - the problem here is with underage kids going where they shouldn't. I'd prefer this be handled by the leaders explaining to the kids why they are carrying water to the desert, but also explaining to the kids the importance of abiding by age rules so as not to damage their own witness.

However, those requesting that the leaders step down have a valid concern and it needs to be addressed.

I'd just like to see it addressed in a manner that allows these musicians to continue their music ministry.

Plexi8759 · 12-08-2011, 12:46 AM

I'm in agreement with 1/2 fast ... I used to be in a band that played in secular areas and I always viewed it as a light shining brighter in a dark place. We however played in different cities and we didn't have that particular issue with our local fan base. The issue definitely needs to be addresses but with discernment and also with the result I believe of continuing to take your light to dark places.

Reynonese · 01-14-2012, 09:59 PM

See 2 Corinthians 6:14-18 for Gods perspective on this but also 1 Corinthians 6:12 for Pauls God-inspired insight in which he states that nothing is unlawful to him of itself BUT not all things are expedient. So if going to those places is going to negatively impact you or your fans or if someone uses your being there as an occasion to start a rumor against you or something of that sort, then its your own fault. Its not Gods or anyones fault but your own. Beware of who you fellowship with. Concerning your band, put it in Gods capable hands and read Matthew 25:21. Be faithful, love God, and he will never forsake you. God bless.

**thesteve** · 01-14-2012, 11:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reynonese

So if going to those places is going to negatively impact you or your fans or if someone uses your being there as an occasion to start a rumor against you or something of that sort, then its your own fault. Its not Gods or anyones fault but your own.

Seriously? If someone starts a rumor about you, it's your fault? How does that work?

**Rainer.** · 01-15-2012, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thesteve

Seriously? If someone starts a rumor about you, it's your fault? How does that work?

Well, if Jesus never hung out with the tax collectors and prostitutes, then no one would have started rumors that he was a drunk.

Reynonese · 01-15-2012, 01:59 PM

We are called to holiness as christians and asked to be blameless before men, so if you put yourself in a position, place or situation where an enemy of the gospel can easily take occasion against you or your band, then its your fault for putting yourself there. Jesus sent us as sheep among wolves, there are always going to be wolves and as representatives of God on earth we must avoid such rumors where possible because, in the unbelievers eyes, they reflect on God Himself. Don't get me wrong, if God told you to go then by all means go, but I don't think He would contradict His own Word.

**thesteve** · 01-15-2012, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reynonese

See 2 Corinthians 6:14-18 for Gods perspective on this but also 1 Corinthians 6:12 for Pauls God-inspired insight in which he states that nothing is unlawful to him of itself BUT not all things are expedient. So if going to those places is going to negatively impact you or your fans or if someone uses your being there as an occasion to start a rumor against you or something of that sort, then its your own fault. Its not Gods or anyones fault but your own. Beware of who you fellowship with. Concerning your band, put it in Gods capable hands and read Matthew 25:21. Be faithful, love God, and he will never forsake you. God bless.

Yet, as Rainier points out, Jesus hung out with people that guaranteed the start of rumors against him.

Reynonese · 01-15-2012, 02:43 PM

I see your point thesteve and Rainier and that is indeed true, so the only thing you can do hiddenpanda is pray, ask for Gods guidance and put your ministry to the acid test of all ministries: Are you seeing results? Are the lost being saved? If that is where God wants you then God will provide.

rock_show_host · 01-15-2012, 04:14 PM

If you're concerned about harmful rumors, then it's also important to not become part of the problem. Meaning that if you see a group of Christians playing gigs in bars or other "secular" spaces, don't start gossiping with other Christians about how that band must be running with the wrong crowd or otherwise ruining their witness. I agree with what you said here:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reynonese

I see your point thesteve and Rainier and that is indeed true, so the only thing you can do hiddenpanda is pray, ask for Gods guidance and put your ministry to the acid test of all ministries: Are you seeing results? Are the lost being saved? If that is where God wants you then God will provide.

If God wants someone to minister by playing in bars and clubs, then the matter is between that person and God. Give them the benefit of the doubt and move on.

Reynonese · 01-15-2012, 05:10 PM

Agreed Rock_Show and my mistake hiddenpanda, I was not gossiping or even trying to and I'm sorry it looked that way, I would never speak against a brother in Christ. I was just showing you some relevant scriptures and offering some personal advice but the fact that your concerned speaks volumes of your intentions and where your heart is, so I trust God will guide you. Once again, my bad and God bless.

Cgul1985 · 02-19-2012, 11:58 PM

Well I know I'm late to the conversation but I would like to share an experience I had on a cruse ship where a group of us competed in a talent show.I have to say the our purpose was to lift his name on high.but the response we got was positive, a lot of people that strayed and other that wondered why.which brings me to my opinion, if by us playing brought back just one soul back to the path it was worth it as far as testimony we are called to go out to the world and be light. But if we are weak and fall to the smallest temptation then we should not be in those places. I hope I helped

tykeith · 02-21-2012, 12:27 PM

I know it's different for everyone and I am not judging in anyway. Everyone in our band is a family man/woman, so as we prayed about it and we feel we were given our answer to not play venues that are bars. Other than that, we'll play anything. Our favorite has been the maximum security prison we used to go play at.