[Bryan]

why? he was never mentioned in my history books when we were studying that time period. I had never heard of him. It's more a failing of our education system than anything.

[Ridley's Own]

No, I think it's a failure of values. The way we (society-wise) honor the dead reflects our cultural values; the things we miss are the things we value. We'll miss Steve Jobs because he mass produced easy-to-use, slick identity templates that look like everyone else's easy-to-use, slick identity templates. You can put whatever you want to in your iBucket, but by God, your iBucket is going to look exactly like my iBucket. Sleek, flashy, with touches of brushed aluminum.

We value Steve Jobs because he made it easier to buy and sell ourselves, then throw it over the side when the latest consumer item that tells us who we are is laid before us. The people who are crying because a guy they bought stuff they didn't actually need (including me; I'm typing this on a MacBook) are crying because they no longer have someone selling their identity to them. It's a nation of narcissists and borderline personalities that now feel deeply emotionally empty.

We don't value Rev. Shuttlesworth because people who fight for others don't have an identity to sell. They argue that in order to fight evil you have to be sure in your self first. You can't depend on Bull Connor to tell you who you are; that's God's job. And because they aren't selling an identity, because its much easier to BUY an identity rather than do the hard work to discover and maintain an identity, Steve Jobs enjoys an apotheosis, and Fred Shuttlesworth is another name on a tombstone.

[Chrysostom]

I'd say, focusing on Shuttlesworth can be overly distracting. The more fundamental question is: What did Steve Jobs do? I can think of a few. For one, he branded the new Creative Class. For another, he wildly popularized the smartphone by transforming it from a productivity device into a consumption device.

So basically, he is not only the reason that We Are The 99 Percent exists (as a phenomenon, not the fact that some people get screwed by health insurance, which has nothing to do with Steve Jobs), he's the reason that most of the 99 Percent's posts end with "uploaded via tumblr for iPad."

Edit: Maybe that was too snarky. But the question is serious: What did Steve Jobs do to be eulogized by 95% of facebook statuses and tweets for a day? I certainly understand if a "geek" mourns the death of his creative hero; that happens with fantasy/sci-fi writers now and then, and it makes perfect sense. But Jobs is mourned almost universally among two or three generations as someone who is deeply, highly, unbelievably significant. Did he free the oppressed? Feed the hungry? Lead many out of a dark time? No; if anything he made the blue pill all the more accessible. The only thing I know of that he did is give an identity to the Creative Class, and I can't see how that is in any way a good thing.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by Ridley's Own

No, I think it's a failure of values. The way we (society-wise) honor the dead reflects our cultural values; the things we miss are the things we value. We'll miss Steve Jobs because he mass produced easy-to-use, slick identity templates that look like everyone else's easy-to-use, slick identity templates. You can put whatever you want to in your iBucket, but by God, your iBucket is going to look exactly like my iBucket. Sleek, flashy, with touches of brushed aluminum.

We value Steve Jobs because he made it easier to buy and sell ourselves, then throw it over the side when the latest consumer item that tells us who we are is laid before us. The people who are crying because a guy they bought stuff they didn't actually need (including me; I'm typing this on a MacBook) are crying because they no longer have someone selling their identity to them. It's a nation of narcissists and borderline personalities that now feel deeply emotionally empty.

We don't value Rev. Shuttlesworth because people who fight for others don't have an identity to sell. They argue that in order to fight evil you have to be sure in your self first. You can't depend on Bull Connor to tell you who you are; that's God's job. And because they aren't selling an identity, because its much easier to BUY an identity rather than do the hard work to discover and maintain an identity, Steve Jobs enjoys an apotheosis, and Fred Shuttlesworth is another name on a tombstone.

Seriously?

[Sean]

Originally Posted by Chrysostom

I'd say, focusing on Shuttlesworth can be overly distracting. The more fundamental question is: What did Steve Jobs do? I can think of a few. For one, he branded the new Creative Class. For another, he wildly popularized the smartphone by transforming it from a productivity device into a consumption device.

So basically, he is not only the reason that We Are The 99 Percent exists (as a phenomenon, not the fact that some people get screwed by health insurance, which has nothing to do with Steve Jobs), he's the reason that most of the 99 Percent's posts end with "uploaded via tumblr for iPad."

Edit: Maybe that was too snarky. But the question is serious: What did Steve Jobs do to be eulogized by 95% of facebook statuses and tweets for a day? I certainly understand if a "geek" mourns the death of his creative hero; that happens with fantasy/sci-fi writers now and then, and it makes perfect sense. But Jobs is mourned almost universally among two or three generations as someone who is deeply, highly, unbelievably significant. Did he free the oppressed? Feed the hungry? Lead many out of a dark time? No; if anything he made the blue pill all the more accessible. The only thing I know of that he did is give an identity to the Creative Class, and I can't see how that is in any way a good thing.

Obviously our culture values entertainment and technology far too much. But I'm not sure it's entirely fair to claim that people's fascination with Job's death is only about our cultural values.

He's an interesting human being. He was given up at birth and a college drop out. He was fired from the company he started only to return a decade later to lead the company to new heights...only to be diagnosed with cancer. He' was a CEO which people actually watched his announcements (hence a feeling of connection).

He was a fascinating human. Dying at 56 at his companies peak adds to that story. More importantly no one was expecting him to die this week.

[adamwagg]

Guys this isn't the thread for whether someone else's death is more interesting than Steve Jobs. If someone else deserves a mention then start a thread for them.

And keep in mind this sticky at the top of Current Events http://www.christianguitar.org/forums/t180172/ Saying someone didn't do anything worth remembering counts as something that's not nice. Thanks all. Later on we can discuss his legacy but lets have some class when someone dies.

[redbaron]

Originally Posted by Chrysostom

he wildly popularized the smartphone by transforming it from a productivity device into a consumption device.

I honestly see this as extremely negative and far to true. Smart phones are supposed to be time savers that enhance productivity allowing us to do more. Now they are facebook and angry birds platforms.

There's a reason I don't play games on my phone... Too much time wasted when I don't have enough time as it is.

[gtrdave]

*Steve Jobs is dead. Yay, let's pick him apart and call everything he did "bad"...*

[Chrysostom]

Originally Posted by adamwagg

Later on we can discuss his legacy but lets have some class when someone dies.

OK.

[Travis]

It is indeed sad to lose an innovator and brilliant mind like Jobs so soon.

A couple of interesting points, though. First, if you have Apple stock, sell it. Jobs was THE creative force in Apple. They brought him back to the company he built in the late 90's after firing him in the 80's, and he saved it again. They can survive without him, but they can't lead the industry in any way for long. The company will be run by his "yes-men" rather than by a brilliant innovator.

Also, just food for thought. Steve Jobs worked his entire life and did so much to amass his fortune. The government will take about 2 billion dollars in estate tax from him, about a third of his estate. The government spends that much EVERY HOUR....

[Demon_Hunter]

Originally Posted by gtrdave

*Steve Jobs is dead. Yay, let's pick him apart and call everything he did "bad"...*

Why not?

I mean, not everything he did was bad, but certainly not everything he did was good. And it isnt distasteful to discuss those negative aspects of his life and career along with the positive.

From my personal perspective almost all Apple products are over-rated copies of things that already existed in one form or another, Steve Jobs just did a better job of marketting his particular devices to the masses than did anyone else. Tablet computers? Apple didnt build those first. HP, Lenovo, and a host of others were already delving into Tablet Computing, and had working models on the market by the time Apple started marketting its device. Cloud computing? Amazon and Google were doing it first, and theirs is better. GUIs? A printing company in the 80's had those first, and Jobs liked the idea so much he copied it.

Leighanna made a good point earlier. Products that Jobs created or marketted, or are a direct result of things he created, are being used to launch revolutions (real revolutions, not marketting, or finance, or pop-culture revolutions, but overthrowing governments kind of revolutions) in the middle east, and they are being used to increase productivity in businesses around the world. There isnt a single business professional Ive interacted with in the last year or 2 who didnt have a smart phone or pda of some kind. Products that are a result of Steve Jobs work are being used to connect people more rapidly, in more diverse ways and regions than ever before, and those connections that are being made are shaping the world we live in in a real tangible way. Products that Steve Jobs put on the market were a huge part of the educational system in the area I grew up in when I was in school. Every school in my district had Macintosh computers in most of the class rooms, and the single computer lab had nothing but Macintosh computers. So quite literally, Steve Jobs contributed to the education of entire regions of youth (Im going on the assumption that the district I grew up in was not at all unique in this). You cant ignore contributions to the world at large like that.

And I guess the real point to all of this is to say simply: *shrug*

[Travis]

Originally Posted by Demon_Hunter

Why not?

Because it's ignorant. Jobs created BILLIONS in wealth. This isn't to say he amassed a fortune, though he did. But he created wealth--that is, he gave jobs, technology, and progress to mankind that made an enormously positive impact in the lives of hundreds of thousands (I'd say many millions) of people. He did more for America, and did FAR more in an honest way,, than the government has managed to do dishonestly for decades.

The human species will greatly miss Steve Jobs, for men like him are rarely seen.

(And by the way, I am a Windows guy. Haven't used an Apple since the 80s. Just because the technology didn't appeal to you personally is no reason to deny the effect he had.)

[Travis]

And frankly, even all those "anti-corporate" types who are sick of government being bought off by lobbyists should generally like Steve Jobs.

The business of Apple wasn't politics | Campaign 2012