[mikewebb59]

Thanks again for all the input.

A little side note -- I went to a Shawn McDonald concert over the weekend, it was held in a nice church, just a little larger than ours, with a nice $$$ sound system and the sound quality was CRAP until the church's volunteer "sound tech" managed to figure out how to turn the thing down and let Shawn do his thing. Halfway into the show.

To those who replied privately I pointed them to my FB page with a number of diagrams and pictures.

The AMP is place is a TOA 924MK-2 series, the data sheets are all over the web. Still considered high-quality PA.

Somewhere along the line somebody wired in some home stereo speakers -- not designed for a powered system -- and a couple of loudspeakers taken from a classroom. The sound is LOUD, coverage very good; the quality coming out of the speakers is not crisp and I can hear the sound "breaking up" @ the speaker if I listen.

Thanks again, Michael

[mikewebb59]

I think this church's greatest problem is speaker use and placement and not the power.

For those who haven't done any work with speaker SPL calculations, put "Peak SPL Calculator" in your favorite search engine; use a speaker sensitivity of 100dB, put in dstances of 70, 100 & 300 feet; and when it's all said and done, a good speaker will gain only a few dB when cranked from 240W to 500W.

And power won't solve the problem of speaker coverage and SPL degradation off-axis. Not unless you want half of the congregation deaf by the end of the Liturgy.

This is a 50-year old building; they ran bare wiring and THEN covered the walls with brick and stucco.

The act of wiring is not the problem; it's the *approval* of drilling holes in brick and stucco walls and through 2'-wide exposed rafters and beams from the Pastoral and Architectural Committees. I can tell you their answer: NO. So if I can pull off keeping the wiring from the closet to the church proper; the sky is the limit.

Powered speakers are an option as there is A/C power along the runs where the speakers would be placed. How does one overcome the Ohm resistance issue of using 6 to 8 smaller speakers?

Thanks, Michael

You can also FB Cantatoris Christus and see the diagrams and photos if you want. Thanks again, Michael

[ibanez_dude]

Originally Posted by mikewebb59

Powered speakers are an option as there is A/C power along the runs where the speakers would be placed.

Power is only half the problem. Powered speakers also require a balanced input, ie XLR or something equivalent, so that's wiring that would have to be done.

Also, the amplifier power point is correct. To increase the volume by 3dB, you need twice the amplifier power.

[Maestro_dmc]

Originally Posted by mikewebb59

How does one overcome the Ohm resistance issue of using 6 to 8 smaller speakers?

With the limitations you are faced with, look into 70v speaker systems. These are usually adjustable in about 3dB increments, either with transformer taps that you can re-wire or an actual knob that you turn.

I've installed Electrovoice EVID's in more than one Catholic Church in the past. They come in at least three different sizes, the "t" version has a 70v transformer, and they come in white as well. The brackets on these allow for very flexible placement.

Electro-Voice EVID Series

Huge benefit to this approach is that you could absolutley re-use your wiring. 70v is "distributed audio" and the advantage is that you can add as many speakers as you need, until you hit 85% of the amplifiers capacity. The TOA amp you have already has 70v outputs too, so you could probably utilize it as well.

Constant voltage speaker system - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You could literally add speakers where you want and run wire from the closest speaker to the new location or locations.

[mikewebb59]

I have an EVID monitor that fits on a microphone, what a sweet tool that is. I will research this right away. Thanks!

[LWatford]

After reading your needs, the 70v option would be a great way to go.

Another option for speakers might be some of the small line arrays that TOA and Bose and a few others make. I've seen these in churches and cathedrals all over the place. Coverage is great, and they're not visually distracting. Looking at your facebook photos, they are almost like a modern version of what's hanging now (almost being using in the broadest sense of the word). TOA has transformers available for theirs.

Originally Posted by Maestro_dmc

With the limitations you are faced with, look into 70v speaker systems. These are usually adjustable in about 3dB increments, either with transformer taps that you can re-wire or an actual knob that you turn.

I've installed Electrovoice EVID's in more than one Catholic Church in the past. They come in at least three different sizes, the "t" version has a 70v transformer, and they come in white as well. The brackets on these allow for very flexible placement.

Electro-Voice EVID Series

Huge benefit to this approach is that you could absolutley re-use your wiring. 70v is "distributed audio" and the advantage is that you can add as many speakers as you need, until you hit 85% of the amplifiers capacity. The TOA amp you have already has 70v outputs too, so you could probably utilize it as well.

Constant voltage speaker system - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You could literally add speakers where you want and run wire from the closest speaker to the new location or locations.

What were the small speakers being used for in the back? From the pictures, it doesn't look deep enough to really need much back there.

Oh, and are the pairs of speakers in the front just separated by that beam?

[mikewebb59]

I really like the idea of these smaller powered speakers, it solves a couple of problems short-term.

Thanks again, Michael

[pfirst]

600 people takes a pretty big PA.

[mikewebb59]

That's the capacity of the Church. If all churches were full: 1) there wouldn't be a problem getting the money to buy an new PA. and 2) there would be fewer problems on this earth, period.

[surferdude9375]

He also still thinks you are trying to rock out when you clearly stated that isn't your goal at all.

Distributed Audio would be a good choice for what you are trying to achieve. More speakers, less "hotspots" of volume and tailored coverage to your room.